Jagbir's children are not the
only one in the world to have visited Shri Mataji
From:
"jagbir singh" <www.adishakti.org@gmail.com>
Date: Sat Feb 5, 2005 6:45 pm
Subject: Jagbir's children are not the only one
in the world to have visited Shri Mataji
|
Dear
Anuj,
Thank you so much for this post that there are others
who have met
Shri Mataji in the Sahasrara. You have no idea how much
this
confirmation comforts me. i have struggled for years to
obtain such
evidence because i do not want to make my children
special, extra
blessed, above others, or whatever. At least now i can
rest easy
because others too have had the same ability. Thank you
again for
bearing witness to the fact that the Adi Shakti resides
in our
Sahasraras, and has been witnessed by those in deep
meditation.
Surely in future we will hear other SYs or their
children confirming
the same. And i will more than welcome them since all
these people
strengthen our faith and deepen our conviction that Shri
Mataji is
indeed the Adi Shakti. Why should these great souls able
to witness
Her be subject to abuse and ridicule?
my pranaam bhaiya,
jagbir
—- In
shriadishakti@yahoogroups.com,
"anujg_iitd" <anujg_iitd@y...>
wrote:
>
> Alex,
>
> I didn't say you said that Sahaja Yogis are have nots.
I said that
>
you said people on this forum are kind of have-nots. I
refer to
>
message 2729 posted by you. Clearly whatever you said in
that
>
message was not positive about people on this forum.
>
> Anyway, I am not going to argue about this particular
point
anymore. But I do have to say this:
>
> Jagbir's children are not the only one in the world to
have
visited
> Shri Mataji in the sahasrar. There are two
cousins of mine
>
who briefly did SY when they were very young and they
recounted
>
seeing Shri Mataji in sahasrar. They also saw Shri
Ganesha. This was
>
all at a time when I didn't access internet so when I
saw
>
adishakti.org for the first time, I was not surprised
because I had
>
seen this happen before, although not in the same
detail.
>
> Also, there is a very elderly Sahaja Yogi (I am not
too sure about
> his name and his location but I can find out) who used
to see
>
Shri Mataji when he meditates. He has a whole book
written about
> his experiences which unfortunately never got published. I
think that
>
now maybe is the time to bring that book to the fore and
get it
> published. In that book he has some pretty startling
revelations
> which even Shri Mataji never told sahajis.
>
> Alex, what do you believe what will happen when a
sahaja yogi
>
dies? Surely I am interested in that answer because I
don't have the
> foggiest idea. Although one bhajan does state that
after coming to
> Sahaja, a person gets out of the life-death cycle.
>
> Alex, if you remember when Shri Mataji started Sahaja
in UK, she
> worked on a few hippies for a few years to get them
established.
>
If you have read " The Advent" you will recall that Shri
Mataji had
> spent a lot of time on Mr. Gregoire. When Shri Mataji
used to give
> realization herself, in the initial phases there used
to be a camp
> kind of arrangement where people would stay for 2-3
days and get
>
most out of the experience. What is happening today in
the public
>
programs that local collectives organize? Its usually
over under 2
>
hours and then they ask people to come to the center for
follow up.
>
Most people who got the vibrations almost never come. So
the point I
>
am trying to make is, maybe just 2 hours of public
program is
>
insufficient. Maybe what we need is some 2-3 days of
camp where
>
people can learn more as there will be more personalized
and
>
intensive contact with the Sahajis. There is one camp
like that
>
which happens every year in Haridwar in India but
clearly we need
>
more of efforts like these. If the current method is
fine, they why
>
is the growth of Sahaja yoga so stagnant in the west and
very slow
>
in countries like India?
>
> Again, whatever Kash or Arwinder say they saw in the
Sahasrar may
> appear to be preposterous/weird or even beyond belief
but let me
>
ask everybody this- wasn't Sahaja Yoga beyond belief
when we all
>
first came in? Wasn't the whole premise of getting
connected with
>
Divine fantastic? How come we then started to believe in
it?
>
Because with Shri Mataji's grace we could indeed raise
our state and
>
expand our consciousness. Then why do we find it weird
to believe
>
what Kash has to say. Maybe years down the line we will
believe in
>
that because our state will become elevated to that
point.
>
> Nobody denies the importance of subtle system .
Initially to get
>
in balance, many people require it. but being obsessed
with it is a
> problem. I have seen some sahajis who keep on doing
shoe beating
>
and foot soaking for their agnya catch when they should
realize
>
that problem is with their ego and/or inadequate
surrender to Shri
>
Mataji. Many people do catch treatment mechanically
feeling they
>
would be cured while the problem lies within the heart
and
>
surrender.
>
> I hope you understand the crux of what I am trying to
say.
>
> cheers
> anuj
>
|
From:
"jagbir singh" <www.adishakti.org@gmail.com>
Date: Sun Feb 6, 2005 8:12 am
Subject: Re: Jagbir's children are not the only
one in the world to have visited Shri Mataji
|
Dear
Satish,
My pranaam to this even more inspiring post. i am asking
you in a
very humble and blissful way why you did not post this
before? Why
should you keep quiet about the very facts that add up
to the
evidence that Shri Mataji is indeed the Adi Shakti? We
need such
verifications of the truth. Even Shri Mataji has told
that it is up
to us to prove She is that:
"I am the Adi Shakti. I am the One who has come on this
Earth for
the first time in this form to do this tremendous task .
The more
you understand this the better it would be. You will
change
tremendously.
I knew I'll have to say that openly one day and we have
said it.
But now it is you people who have to prove it that I am
that!"
Shri Adi-Shakti Devi
Sydney, Aust. — March 21, 1983
(Adi-Shakti [615th]: Primal Power; being the First
Cause.)
But thank you Satish bhaiya for at least posting it. If
you were
right in front of me now i would have given you a huge
hug of joy
and uttered a thunderous "Jai Shri Mataji!"
Those SYs with wisdom and vision will realize the
immensity of what
Satish has just told us. i will not discuss what i see
but will
bring out the truths revealed at the appropriate time.
Maybe today i will blow the conch after a long absence.
To all my
brothers and sisters here i assure that the Adi Shakti
will work out
Her incarnation of Earth and the Divine Message for
humanity through
all of us. The Truth presented by Anuj and Satish bhaiya
have given
us the Divine Nectar. All the bhaktas of the Shakti
should know they
also can advance and meet the Golden Goddess in their
sahasraras.
And we must defend the Truth at all times by having a
clear mind to
destroy the negativity as and when it arises.
Jai Shri Mataji,
jagbir
—- In
shriadishakti@yahoogroups.com,
Satish Shukla <saap7@y...>
wrote:
>
> Jai Shree Mata JI,
>
> Dear SY Brothers and Sisters,
>
> Without getting into any debate or discussions on the
> rights and wrongs here I just wish to corroborate the
> inputs by Jagbir and Anuj.
>
> I have a SY colleague who came into Sahaj about two
> years back but got very serious about meditation and
> other aspects related to it just about one year ago.He
> does not have much knowledge about Sahaj.But one thing
> he has achieved is being able to attain a complete
> state of Nirvichar for as much as 30 mins also. Most
> important of all please note the following:
>
> 1.HE HAS NEVER ATTENDED ANY COLLECTIVITY.
>
> 2.HE REGULARLY MEETS SHREE MATA JI IN THE
> SAHASRAR,EVERY TIME HE SITS IN MEDITATION GENERALLY
> DURING EVENING SESSIONS.
>
> 3.HE HAS BEEN MADE TO PERFORM PUJA ON THE SHIVALINGA
> IN THE SAHASRAR ALMOST DAILY BY SHREE MATA JI.
>
> 4.HE HAS MET SHREE SHIVA, SHREE PARVATI AND SHREE
> GANESHA IN THE SAHASRAR.
>
> 5.SHREE MATA JI HAS EVEN TAKEN HIM TO MEET THE LORD
> ALMIGHTY SHREE SHIVA ON COUPLE OF OCASSIONS.
>
> There are so many things happening to him which none
> of us have ever heard of and cannot be described here.
> I have been just two years into Sahaj and try to
> attend collectivity as often as is possible but have
> realised among other things that the mannerisms of
> the leaders and other important office bearers leave
> much to be desired.
>
> Had it not been for my utmost faith in Shree Mataji
> and the experiences She Herself gave to me I would
> have walked out of Sahaj. It is for the same reason I
> have never coerced my friend and colleague to attend
> collectivity.
>
> This mail is intended to put to rest that the
> experiences Kash and Arvinder have had are not mere
> figments of imagination. I am sure there would be
> others as well who would have had similar experiences
> but would like to keep these to themselves. Like this
> friend of mine he does not even want to be identified
> leave alone the public declaration of his experiences.
>
> I have been a witness to this pointless debate which
> has been raised time and again in the forum and feel
> that there are some SYs like the ones in
> collectivities who somehow enjoy castigating others
> just for the sake of it.
>
> Let us all enjoy the blessings of Shree Mata Ji and
> respect each other as Brothers and Sisters in SY and
> work towards promoting SY and not scaring people away.
>
> Jai Shree Mata Ji.
> Satish
>
From: "anujg_iitd"
<anujg_iitd@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat Feb 5, 2005 2:28 pm
Subject: Re: Alex, it is time to make good
your threat to report me to Shri Mataji!
|
Alex,
Why do you think that Jagbir's claims of his
children meeting in the
sahasrar are preposterous? Why is your attitude so
insulting about
it? Maybe you don't believe that this is possible or
you don't believe
that its possible to rise to that state where its
possible? Its one
thing to know something intellectually and quite
another thing to
have conviction and belief in it to follow it. One
great man once
said that when we judge somebody, we dont judge him
but the aspect of ourselves that we dont like that
we see in him.
Last time I remember you calling everybody on this
forum Sahaja have-
nots or something to that effect, claiming that
everybody on the
forum is on the fringes of sahaja yoga and a real
menace to it. Where
then is the place for humility, love and compassion
that Shri Mataji
expects us to have? (ok maybe we all are what you
say we are -sahaja
have-nots, but in that case do you really help us
and yourself by
insulting us?)
If you believe Jagbir is wrong, check the
vibrations. If you think
his method is wrong, then lets work on it
constructively. After all
you yourself said, we become like a flute,
instrument of divine and
if we all are sahaji's why dont we work together
instead of
exchanging insults and sarcasm?
As for spreading Sahaja Yoga: There are all kind of
people in this
world: People who want to gain materially,
physically, spiritually.
People who take to Sahaja easily and people who dont.
People who need answers to their questions and
people who don't have many questions. For some
people, the official site of Sahaja suffices and for
others adishakti.org has been a tremendous source
for finding the shakti within. Why should these two
be at loggerheads?
But at the same time, if you do some math, we have
to admit that not
many people are taking to Sahaja (not even my own
parents, even
though when told about last judgement) and we need
to take advantage of internet to spread it. But
internet has its disadvantages: for example if a
person has questions, he cant ask. and that's where
we should thank Jagbir for that. If we believe
Jagbir to be wrong, why
doesn't official leader of Sahaja website try his
prescription to
proclaim the divine message on all sites for some
time and see if it
helps? If there is no discernible advantage, THEN
AND ONLY THEN we
can say that he is wrong.
Criticism helps but only when done constructively.
Sahaja is after
all an organic movement and not something like a
organized religion.
And when we hear stories about Jagbir's children's
touted as demons,
these lead us to suspect if people are turning
sahaja into organized.
Did Yogi Mahajan check the vibrations of Kaash
before making that
horrible accusation? Alex, did you check vibrations
to know if Kaash
really visits Shri Mataji in the sahasrar?
If you are a sahaja yogi, Alex, perhaps you should
realize the
importance of weighing your words and have wisdom
not to insult
everybody on this forum. Jagbir has time and again
provided proof of
what he says. Can the same statement be made for you
with certainty?
Everybody,
I think its time to realize that Jagbir is NOT
ATTACKING ANY LEADER
on this forum. Instead he is trying to foster an
approach of
introspection to find out in what ways can we spread
Sahaja and is
our current approach wrong. So if we have any
positive contribution
towards it then, please, lets share it for the
benefit of everybody.
But do not lets turn this into a forum where we are
trading hate
mails and or insults.
cheers
anuj
From: "anujg_iitd"
<anujg_iitd@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon Feb 7, 2005 2:39 pm
Subject: Seeing Shri Mataji in Sahasrar |
Hello all,
Instead of making effort to see Shri Mataji in
Sahasrar i think the
effort has to be to become thoughtless. There
are some reasons I say
this:
a) Seeing Shri Mataji in Sahasrar is a gift
given by her to a highly
realized soul. Thus one has to become a highly
realized soul first.
b) it might compel people to start imagining and
go away from
thoughtlessness
c) Seeing Shri Mataji in sahasrar i believe is a
state beyond all
intellect and thus cannot be achieved
intellectually.
Shri Mataji gave a brief analogy about something
similar to this. She
said that if you desire something it means that
you are not that
thing but you have to rise to that state where
you can say, mother I
am that(i.e. the atman, soul)
I think this is a very sensitive issue and it
can give people who are
still not settled in sahaja any amount of ideas.
So the focus should
be to become thoughtless and not visiting Shri
Mataji in Sahasrar. If
we are lucky enough, we will get to that state
but without asking for
it.
anuj
From: "jagbir
singh" <www.adishakti.org@gmail.com>
Date: Mon Feb 7, 2005 6:33 am
Subject: But Vinay, he has never
attended any collective and is yet far ahead
|
—- In
shriadishakti@yahoogroups.com,
Vinay Talwar
<vinay_yogi2000@y...> wrote:
>
> I was listen to audio cassette yesterday
at night. I am not
> interested to fight like you people but i
must say this.
>
> Mataji said, (5.5.85, i think. I am in
cyber cafe so i tell from
> memeory)that whatever you do, stay in the
collective. She said
> sometimes even if you think people are not
behaving so nicely,
> even then you must go to collective. It is
very important. She
> says you cannot, you simply cannot ascend
alone. No matter what
> you must meditate in colleectivity. Those
people who do not
> attrend collective are finished. ...
>
> Also, about the possesion when it happens,
the possessed person
> will not know.
>
Vinay,
Some SYs are advancing far into the Turiya
state and beyond, just
like Satish's friend. He has never attended
any collective and is
yet far ahead. Apparently that has disturbed
you because according
to you understanding that is just not
possible. You just cannot
accept the fact that any SY can advance to
that level without even
attending a single collective. That really
scares you because you
have induced yourself to believe it is
IMPOSSIBLE.
But don't frighten people with your
ignorance. If the collective is
fine for you then we are happy. Those who
wish to ascend alone have
every right to do so. The more you force
those meditating alone with
your fear-mongering the more resistant they
will they become. i am
100% sure i can ascend alone because, after
all, it is an individual
journey. Maybe you missed that tape. And
that one on Collective
Consciousness too.
jagbir
Note: Satish, i have reason to believe that
Vinay thinks your SY
friend is possessed too. i am quite sure
about this type of mindset
some SYs have. According to these ignorant
folks if THEY think
something is IMPOSSIBLE then it must be
possession. They just cannot
see it any other way. |
From: Satish
Shukla <saap7@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Feb 8, 2005 4:10 am
Subject: Re: [shriadishakti] But
Vinay, he has never attended any collective
and is yet far ahead
|
Jagbir,
I think so and that
was the precise reason for not coming out
with the information about my friend.
There are things my friend is experiencing
today which are absolutely marvelous and
out of this world. Only yesterday, as has
been his experience for the past about
three to four months, he was up close with
Lord Shiva himself. We have seen that it
has become more or less regular that every
Monday he meets/sees/interacts with the
Maker. Sometimes with Shree Mata Ji on
other occasions alone. While many of us
cannot even see our Chakras he can clearly
see his own Chakras with very clear view
of the presiding dieties. I do not ask him
anything because I am confident about the
absolute truth of his statements.
He is a person who
at one time headed the glamorous world of
Media in the most popular media company
of our country. Today we have a company of
our own and our leading light is Shree
Mata Ji. When we got together in 2003
he never showed any interest towards my
discussions on Sahaj. I in any case did
not know much during my initial days in
Sahaj. It was Shree Mata Ji's will that he
be indoctrinated into this and the way She
made it happen is a long story by itself.
Today he does not have any interest in
the fast paced world of the Media leave
aside its glamorous part. He and I only
discuss Sahaj even in our Office and
exchange notes. All those who have known
him find him to be a completely changed
man from the most loud, aggressive and
dynamic head of a MNC to his calm and
composed ever smiling and contended self
that he has become today. He looks forward
to getting back home and getting into
meditation. There is so much that one
could write about his experiences that it
would become a biography of a devout Sahaj
Yogi.
I was in a dilemma
about sending the previous mail but
realised that you had been trying all by
yourself to defend the truth and that we
all would be failing in our
responsibilities towards Sahaj Yoga.More
importantly we would be failing towards
the faith with which Shree Mata Ji gave us
our Self Realisation so that when we
experience what she has been training us
for we become the messengers and do what
is expected of us.
I can only request
other seekers to open their mental
faculties and see everything in positive
light. I think the best thing would be as
someone suggested, to check the vibrations
for the veracity of the information and
the claims being made. My idea was just to
corroborate what you had been telling
everybody for a long time.
Jai Shree Mata Ji,
Satish
From: "kriptodanny"
<kriptodanny@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Feb 8, 2005 5:04 am
Subject: Re: But Vinay, he has
never attended any collective and is
yet far ahead |
Dear Satish
My prannam to your post. The time has
come when the ancient souls
finally discover Sahaja Yoga, and
start proclaiming the same very truth
about Shri Mataji. Their wisdom and
testimony about the Kingdom within
finally will emerge in the collective
consciousness ,and clear out
the doubts about SY being just,,a
yoga,,.While I still believe one's
goal in SY should not be anything more
then uniting with the power of
love, these highly evolved souls who
testify about their experiences
have a mission to accomplish, for the
benefit of the others. This
opportunity was missed by Yogi Mahajan,
when he had a chance to explore and
understand Jagbir's kids wisdom. Maybe
we won't make the same mistake in the
future...
Jai Shri Mataji
danny
From:
"jagbir singh" <www.adishakti.org@gmail.com>
Date: Tue Feb 8, 2005
8:35 am
Subject: Re: But Vinay, he
has never attended any collective
and is yet far ahead
|
Dear Satish bhaiya,
My pranaam too for this post.
Maybe it is a good thing your
friend
has kept his experiences away from
the rank and file SYs. i am sure
he would be regarded as a
possessed lunatic by many of his
own
brothers and sisters. These
ignorant priestly class just
cannot see
eye to Third Eye with the mystics
and will always demonize them. Why
do you think i could feel the fear
and weak left heart of Madan
Khurana all the way in Montreal,
Canada? There are so many SYs just
like him in our collectives and
they will ostracize anyone who
dares
claim to meet Shri Mataji in the
Sahasrara.
But what these ignorant people
fail to realize is that there is a
vast difference between a
possessed person (like Simon,
Ishmael,
Juka and other Rama/Kalki/Jesus
wannabees) and those truly
advanced souls able to meet Her.
The latter claim nothing for
themselves and just inform us what
they witness in their Sahasraras.
They never claim they are
incarnations of Shri Rama/Kalki/Jesus
or whatever. In the first place
they are not even interested in
publicity or want to tell others,
just like your friend.
In my case i am forced to tell
because the witnesses are crucial
to
authenticate the Divine Message of
the Bible and Koran. Both these
scriptures demand precise Sure
Signs to validate both the Divine
Message and the identity of the
divine messenger authorized to
deliver it to humanity. Without
their testimonies and evidence the
Divine Message cannot be
proclaimed.
What fear-mongering SYs fail to
realize is that these ancient
souls
have come down on Earth together
with Shri Mataji to help bear
witness that She is indeed the Adi
Shakti sent by God Almighty to
deliever the Great News of the
Last Judgment and Resurrection.
Why
are they so ignorant and dull to
understand that the Divine Message
needs irrefutable eschatological
evidence? What is the matter with
these subtle system fanatics who
refuse to be honest about what
Sahaja Yoga is all about, and yet
want to destroy those who provide
proof, faith and confidence to do
just that? Why can't these
priestly class just keep quiet and
let those who have the abilities
to meet the Shakti in the
Sahasrara alone? Why can't they
stop
spreading their fears and
projecting their insecurities to
others?
jagbir
From: "jagbir singh" <www.adishakti.org@gmail.com>
Date: Wed Feb 9, 2005
10:57 am
Subject: Re: About
Sahastrar Visions of Shree
mataji
|
—- In
shriadishakti@yahoogroups.com,
"kriptodanny"
<kriptodanny@y...> wrote:
>
> While this is not the
,,end,, of the road in the
> complete realization process
,it is NOT a necessary middle
point
> too. The idea is to not
force it, or became fanatic
that this is
> absolutely a necessary step,
or ability, for one's progress
towards
> God.
>
Meeting Shri Mataji in the
Sahasrara is absolutely
unnecessary/not
required for any measure of
spiritual progress. Although
Shri Mataji
has claimed She exists in the
Sahasrara never has She made
it a
requirement. This has no
bearing whatsoever on
self-realization.
But such evidence is
absolutely required if we SYs
are to prove that
Shri Mataji is indeed the Adi
Shakti. The title of Shri
Lalita,
Divine Mother and Adi Shakti
has already been stolen from
under the
noses of subtle system SYs
because they have no guts to
make any
public attempt to claim that
honor for Shri Mataji. Now we
have to
deal with foolish SYs
ridiculing the experiences and
obstructing
those trying to salvage some
honor. Some of them are so
dull that it
is almost impossible to make
them realize the damage they
are doing.
And i keep telling that such
experiences are mandatory to
advance
the Divine Message. Without
such evidence there is just no
way any
SY can have the confidence to
speak about it. All they can
do is
claim Sahaja Yoga is about the
subtle system.
So what can be done to make
these dull SYs brighter?
....... repeat
after repeat after repeat
after repeat of the same stuff
until they
can finally begin to grasp.
With such murmuring SYs within
the
organization spreading their
negativity why blame outsiders
for our
failures? i have always
maintained that the negativity
is within.
Those looking outside are just
trying to find scapegoats.
jagbir
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