Jagbir's children are not the only one in the world to have visited Shri Mataji

From:  "jagbir singh" <www.adishakti.org@gmail.com>
Date:  Sat Feb 5, 2005  6:45 pm
Subject:  Jagbir's children are not the only one in the world to have visited Shri Mataji
Dear Anuj,

Thank you so much for this post that there are others who have met
Shri Mataji in the Sahasrara. You have no idea how much this
confirmation comforts me. i have struggled for years to obtain such
evidence because i do not want to make my children special, extra
blessed, above others, or whatever. At least now i can rest easy
because others too have had the same ability. Thank you again for
bearing witness to the fact that the Adi Shakti resides in our
Sahasraras, and has been witnessed by those in deep meditation.

Surely in future we will hear other SYs or their children confirming
the same. And i will more than welcome them since all these people
strengthen our faith and deepen our conviction that Shri Mataji is
indeed the Adi Shakti. Why should these great souls able to witness
Her be subject to abuse and ridicule?

my pranaam bhaiya,


—- In
shriadishakti@yahoogroups.com, "anujg_iitd" <anujg_iitd@y...>
> Alex,
> I didn't say you said that Sahaja Yogis are have nots. I said that
> you said people on this forum are kind of have-nots. I refer to
> message 2729 posted by you. Clearly whatever you said in that
> message was not positive about people on this forum.
> Anyway, I am not going to argue about this particular point
anymore. But I do have to say this:
> Jagbir's children are not the only one in the world to have visited
> Shri Mataji in the sahasrar. There are two cousins of mine
> who briefly did SY when they were very young and they recounted
> seeing Shri Mataji in sahasrar. They also saw Shri Ganesha. This was
> all at a time when I didn't access internet so when I saw
> adishakti.org for the first time, I was not surprised because I had
> seen this happen before, although not in the same detail.
> Also, there is a very elderly Sahaja Yogi (I am not too sure about
> his name and his location but I can find out) who used to see
> Shri Mataji when he meditates. He has a whole book written about
> his experiences which unfortunately never got published. I think that
> now maybe is the time to bring that book to the fore and get it
> published. In that book he has some pretty startling revelations
> which even Shri Mataji never told sahajis.
> Alex, what do you believe what will happen when a sahaja yogi
> dies? Surely I am interested in that answer because I don't have the
> foggiest idea. Although one bhajan does state that after coming to
> Sahaja, a person gets out of the life-death cycle.
> Alex, if you remember when Shri Mataji started Sahaja in UK, she
> worked on a few hippies for a few years to get them established.
> If you have read " The Advent" you will recall that Shri Mataji had
> spent a lot of time on Mr. Gregoire. When Shri Mataji used to give
> realization herself, in the initial phases there used to be a camp
> kind of arrangement where people would stay for 2-3 days and get
> most out of the experience. What is happening today in the public
> programs that local collectives organize? Its usually over under 2
> hours and then they ask people to come to the center for follow up.
> Most people who got the vibrations almost never come. So the point I
> am trying to make is, maybe just 2 hours of public program is
> insufficient. Maybe what we need is some 2-3 days of camp where
> people can learn more as there will be more personalized and
> intensive contact with the Sahajis. There is one camp like that
> which happens every year in Haridwar in India but clearly we need
> more of efforts like these. If the current method is fine, they why
> is the growth of Sahaja yoga so stagnant in the west and very slow
> in countries like India?
> Again, whatever Kash or Arwinder say they saw in the Sahasrar may
> appear to be preposterous/weird or even beyond belief but let me
> ask everybody this- wasn't Sahaja Yoga beyond belief when we all
> first came in? Wasn't the whole premise of getting connected with
> Divine fantastic? How come we then started to believe in it?
> Because with Shri Mataji's grace we could indeed raise our state and
> expand our consciousness. Then why do we find it weird to believe
> what Kash has to say. Maybe years down the line we will believe in
> that because our state will become elevated to that point.
> Nobody denies the importance of subtle system . Initially to get
> in balance, many people require it. but being obsessed with it is a
> problem. I have seen some sahajis who keep on doing shoe beating
> and foot soaking for their agnya catch when they should realize
> that problem is with their ego and/or inadequate surrender to Shri
> Mataji. Many people do catch treatment mechanically feeling they
> would be cured while the problem lies within the heart and
> surrender.
> I hope you understand the crux of what I am trying to say.
> cheers
> anuj

From:  "jagbir singh" <www.adishakti.org@gmail.com>
Date:  Sun Feb 6, 2005  8:12 am
Subject:  Re: Jagbir's children are not the only one in the world to have visited Shri Mataji
Dear Satish,

My pranaam to this even more inspiring post. i am asking you in a
very humble and blissful way why you did not post this before? Why
should you keep quiet about the very facts that add up to the
evidence that Shri Mataji is indeed the Adi Shakti? We need such
verifications of the truth. Even Shri Mataji has told that it is up
to us to prove She is that:

"I am the Adi Shakti. I am the One who has come on this Earth for
the first time in this form to do this tremendous task . The more
you understand this the better it would be. You will change

I knew I'll have to say that openly one day and we have said it.
But now it is you people who have to prove it that I am that!"

Shri Adi-Shakti Devi
Sydney, Aust. — March 21, 1983
(Adi-Shakti [615th]: Primal Power; being the First Cause.)

But thank you Satish bhaiya for at least posting it. If you were
right in front of me now i would have given you a huge hug of joy
and uttered a thunderous "Jai Shri Mataji!"

Those SYs with wisdom and vision will realize the immensity of what
Satish has just told us. i will not discuss what i see but will bring out the truths revealed at the appropriate time.

Maybe today i will blow the conch after a long absence. To all my
brothers and sisters here i assure that the Adi Shakti will work out
Her incarnation of Earth and the Divine Message for humanity through
all of us. The Truth presented by Anuj and Satish bhaiya have given
us the Divine Nectar. All the bhaktas of the Shakti should know they
also can advance and meet the Golden Goddess in their sahasraras.
And we must defend the Truth at all times by having a clear mind to
destroy the negativity as and when it arises.

Jai Shri Mataji,


—- In
shriadishakti@yahoogroups.com, Satish Shukla <saap7@y...>
> Jai Shree Mata JI,
> Dear SY Brothers and Sisters,
> Without getting into any debate or discussions on the
> rights and wrongs here I just wish to corroborate the
> inputs by Jagbir and Anuj.
> I have a SY colleague who came into Sahaj about two
> years back but got very serious about meditation and
> other aspects related to it just about one year ago.He
> does not have much knowledge about Sahaj.But one thing
> he has achieved is being able to attain a complete
> state of Nirvichar for as much as 30 mins also. Most
> important of all please note the following:
> There are so many things happening to him which none
> of us have ever heard of and cannot be described here.
> I have been just two years into Sahaj and try to
> attend collectivity as often as is possible but have
> realised among other things that the mannerisms of
> the leaders and other important office bearers leave
> much to be desired.
> Had it not been for my utmost faith in Shree Mataji
> and the experiences She Herself gave to me I would
> have walked out of Sahaj. It is for the same reason I
> have never coerced my friend and colleague to attend
> collectivity.
> This mail is intended to put to rest that the
> experiences Kash and Arvinder have had are not mere
> figments of imagination. I am sure there would be
> others as well who would have had similar experiences
> but would like to keep these to themselves. Like this
> friend of mine he does not even want to be identified
> leave alone the public declaration of his experiences.
> I have been a witness to this pointless debate which
> has been raised time and again in the forum and feel
> that there are some SYs like the ones in
> collectivities who somehow enjoy castigating others
> just for the sake of it.
> Let us all enjoy the blessings of Shree Mata Ji and
> respect each other as Brothers and Sisters in SY and
> work towards promoting SY and not scaring people away.
> Jai Shree Mata Ji.
> Satish

From:  "anujg_iitd" <anujg_iitd@yahoo.com>
Date:  Sat Feb 5, 2005  2:28 pm
Subject:  Re: Alex, it is time to make good your threat to report me to Shri Mataji!

Why do you think that Jagbir's claims of his children meeting in the
sahasrar are preposterous? Why is your attitude so insulting about
it? Maybe you don't believe that this is possible or you don't believe
that its possible to rise to that state where its possible? Its one
thing to know something intellectually and quite another thing to
have conviction and belief in it to follow it. One great man once
said that when we judge somebody, we dont judge him but the aspect of ourselves that we dont like that we see in him.

Last time I remember you calling everybody on this forum Sahaja have-
nots or something to that effect, claiming that everybody on the
forum is on the fringes of sahaja yoga and a real menace to it. Where
then is the place for humility, love and compassion that Shri Mataji
expects us to have? (ok maybe we all are what you say we are -sahaja
have-nots, but in that case do you really help us and yourself by
insulting us?)

If you believe Jagbir is wrong, check the vibrations. If you think
his method is wrong, then lets work on it constructively. After all
you yourself said, we become like a flute, instrument of divine and
if we all are sahaji's why dont we work together instead of
exchanging insults and sarcasm?

As for spreading Sahaja Yoga: There are all kind of people in this
world: People who want to gain materially, physically, spiritually.
People who take to Sahaja easily and people who dont. People who need answers to their questions and people who don't have many questions. For some people, the official site of Sahaja suffices and for others adishakti.org has been a tremendous source for finding the shakti within. Why should these two be at loggerheads?

But at the same time, if you do some math, we have to admit that not
many people are taking to Sahaja (not even my own parents, even
though when told about last judgement) and we need to take advantage of internet to spread it. But internet has its disadvantages: for example if a person has questions, he cant ask. and that's where we should thank Jagbir for that. If we believe Jagbir to be wrong, why
doesn't official leader of Sahaja website try his prescription to
proclaim the divine message on all sites for some time and see if it
helps? If there is no discernible advantage, THEN AND ONLY THEN we
can say that he is wrong.

Criticism helps but only when done constructively. Sahaja is after
all an organic movement and not something like a organized religion.
And when we hear stories about Jagbir's children's touted as demons,
these lead us to suspect if people are turning sahaja into organized.
Did Yogi Mahajan check the vibrations of Kaash before making that
horrible accusation? Alex, did you check vibrations to know if Kaash
really visits Shri Mataji in the sahasrar?

If you are a sahaja yogi, Alex, perhaps you should realize the
importance of weighing your words and have wisdom not to insult
everybody on this forum. Jagbir has time and again provided proof of
what he says. Can the same statement be made for you with certainty?


I think its time to realize that Jagbir is NOT ATTACKING ANY LEADER
on this forum. Instead he is trying to foster an approach of
introspection to find out in what ways can we spread Sahaja and is
our current approach wrong. So if we have any positive contribution
towards it then, please, lets share it for the benefit of everybody.
But do not lets turn this into a forum where we are trading hate
mails and or insults.



From:  "anujg_iitd" <anujg_iitd@yahoo.com>
Date:  Mon Feb 7, 2005  2:39 pm
Subject:  Seeing Shri Mataji in Sahasrar

Hello all,

Instead of making effort to see Shri Mataji in Sahasrar i think the
effort has to be to become thoughtless. There are some reasons I say

a) Seeing Shri Mataji in Sahasrar is a gift given by her to a highly
realized soul. Thus one has to become a highly realized soul first.

b) it might compel people to start imagining and go away from

c) Seeing Shri Mataji in sahasrar i believe is a state beyond all
intellect and thus cannot be achieved intellectually.

Shri Mataji gave a brief analogy about something similar to this. She
said that if you desire something it means that you are not that
thing but you have to rise to that state where you can say, mother I
am that(i.e. the atman, soul)

I think this is a very sensitive issue and it can give people who are
still not settled in sahaja any amount of ideas. So the focus should
be to become thoughtless and not visiting Shri Mataji in Sahasrar. If
we are lucky enough, we will get to that state but without asking for


From:  "jagbir singh" <www.adishakti.org@gmail.com>
Date:  Mon Feb 7, 2005  6:33 am
Subject:  But Vinay, he has never attended any collective and is yet far ahead
—- In shriadishakti@yahoogroups.com, Vinay Talwar
<vinay_yogi2000@y...> wrote:
> I was listen to audio cassette yesterday at night. I am not
> interested to fight like you people but i must say this.
> Mataji said, (5.5.85, i think. I am in cyber cafe so i tell from
> memeory)that whatever you do, stay in the collective. She said
> sometimes even if you think people are not behaving so nicely,
> even then you must go to collective. It is very important. She
> says you cannot, you simply cannot ascend alone. No matter what
> you must meditate in colleectivity. Those people who do not
> attrend collective are finished. ...
> Also, about the possesion when it happens, the possessed person
> will not know.


Some SYs are advancing far into the Turiya state and beyond, just
like Satish's friend. He has never attended any collective and is
yet far ahead. Apparently that has disturbed you because according
to you understanding that is just not possible. You just cannot
accept the fact that any SY can advance to that level without even
attending a single collective. That really scares you because you
have induced yourself to believe it is IMPOSSIBLE.

But don't frighten people with your ignorance. If the collective is
fine for you then we are happy. Those who wish to ascend alone have
every right to do so. The more you force those meditating alone with
your fear-mongering the more resistant they will they become. i am
100% sure i can ascend alone because, after all, it is an individual
journey. Maybe you missed that tape. And that one on Collective
Consciousness too.


Note: Satish, i have reason to believe that Vinay thinks your SY
friend is possessed too. i am quite sure about this type of mindset
some SYs have. According to these ignorant folks if THEY think
something is IMPOSSIBLE then it must be possession. They just cannot
see it any other way.


From:  Satish Shukla <saap7@yahoo.com>
Date:  Tue Feb 8, 2005  4:10 am
Subject:  Re: [shriadishakti] But Vinay, he has never attended any collective and is yet far ahead
I think so and that was the precise reason for not coming out with the information about my friend. There are things my friend is experiencing today which are absolutely marvelous and out of this world. Only yesterday, as has been his experience for the past about three to four months, he was up close with Lord Shiva himself. We have seen that it has become more or less regular that every Monday he meets/sees/interacts with the Maker. Sometimes with Shree Mata Ji on other occasions alone. While many of us cannot even see our Chakras he can clearly see his own Chakras with very clear view of the presiding dieties. I do not ask him anything because I am confident about the absolute truth of his statements.
He is a person who at one time headed the glamorous world of Media in  the most popular media company of our country. Today we have a company of our own and our leading light is Shree Mata Ji. When we got together in 2003 he never showed any interest towards my discussions on Sahaj. I in any case did not know much during my initial days in Sahaj. It was Shree Mata Ji's will that he be indoctrinated into this and the way She made it happen is a long story by itself. Today he does not have any interest in the fast paced world of the Media leave aside its glamorous part. He and I only discuss Sahaj even in our Office and exchange notes. All those who have known him find him to be a completely changed man from the most loud, aggressive and dynamic head of a MNC to his calm and composed ever smiling and contended self that he has become today. He looks forward to getting back home and getting into meditation. There is so much that one could write about his experiences that it would become a biography of a devout Sahaj Yogi.
I was in a dilemma about sending the previous mail but realised that you had been trying all by yourself to defend the truth and that we all would be failing in our responsibilities towards Sahaj Yoga.More importantly we would be failing towards the faith with which Shree Mata Ji gave us our Self Realisation so that when we experience what she has been training us for we become the messengers and do what is expected of us.
I can only request other seekers to open their mental faculties and see everything in positive light. I think the best thing would be as someone suggested, to check the vibrations for the veracity of the information and the claims being made. My idea was just to corroborate what you had been telling everybody for a long time.
Jai Shree Mata Ji,

From:  "kriptodanny" <kriptodanny@yahoo.com>
Date:  Tue Feb 8, 2005  5:04 am
Subject:  Re: But Vinay, he has never attended any collective and is yet far ahead

Dear Satish

My prannam to your post. The time has come when the ancient souls
finally discover Sahaja Yoga, and start proclaiming the same very truth
about Shri Mataji. Their wisdom and testimony about the Kingdom within finally will emerge in the collective consciousness ,and clear out
the doubts about SY being just,,a yoga,,.While I still believe one's
goal in SY should not be anything more then uniting with the power of
love, these highly evolved souls who testify about their experiences
have a mission to accomplish, for the benefit of the others. This
opportunity was missed by Yogi Mahajan, when he had a chance to explore and understand Jagbir's kids wisdom. Maybe we won't make the same mistake in the future...

Jai Shri Mataji


From:  "jagbir singh" <www.adishakti.org@gmail.com>
Date:  Tue Feb 8, 2005  8:35 am
Subject:  Re: But Vinay, he has never attended any collective and is yet far ahead
Dear Satish bhaiya,

My pranaam too for this post. Maybe it is a good thing your friend
has kept his experiences away from the rank and file SYs. i am sure
he would be regarded as a possessed lunatic by many of his own
brothers and sisters. These ignorant priestly class just cannot see
eye to Third Eye with the mystics and will always demonize them. Why
do you think i could feel the fear and weak left heart of Madan
Khurana all the way in Montreal, Canada? There are so many SYs just
like him in our collectives and they will ostracize anyone who dares
claim to meet Shri Mataji in the Sahasrara.

But what these ignorant people fail to realize is that there is a
vast difference between a possessed person (like Simon, Ishmael,
Juka and other Rama/Kalki/Jesus wannabees) and those truly advanced souls able to meet Her. The latter claim nothing for themselves and just inform us what they witness in their Sahasraras. They never claim they are incarnations of Shri Rama/Kalki/Jesus or whatever. In the first place they are not even interested in publicity or want to tell others, just like your friend.

In my case i am forced to tell because the witnesses are crucial to
authenticate the Divine Message of the Bible and Koran. Both these
scriptures demand precise Sure Signs to validate both the Divine
Message and the identity of the divine messenger authorized to
deliver it to humanity. Without their testimonies and evidence the
Divine Message cannot be proclaimed.

What fear-mongering SYs fail to realize is that these ancient souls
have come down on Earth together with Shri Mataji to help bear
witness that She is indeed the Adi Shakti sent by God Almighty to
deliever the Great News of the Last Judgment and Resurrection. Why
are they so ignorant and dull to understand that the Divine Message
needs irrefutable eschatological evidence? What is the matter with
these subtle system fanatics who refuse to be honest about what
Sahaja Yoga is all about, and yet want to destroy those who provide
proof, faith and confidence to do just that? Why can't these
priestly class just keep quiet and let those who have the abilities
to meet the Shakti in the Sahasrara alone? Why can't they stop
spreading their fears and projecting their insecurities to others?


From:  "jagbir singh" <www.adishakti.org@gmail.com>
Date:  Wed Feb 9, 2005  10:57 am
Subject:  Re: About Sahastrar Visions of Shree mataji
—- In shriadishakti@yahoogroups.com, "kriptodanny"
<kriptodanny@y...> wrote:
> While this is not the ,,end,, of the road in the
> complete realization process ,it is NOT a necessary middle point
> too. The idea is to not force it, or became fanatic that this is
> absolutely a necessary step, or ability, for one's progress towards
> God.

Meeting Shri Mataji in the Sahasrara is absolutely unnecessary/not
required for any measure of spiritual progress. Although Shri Mataji
has claimed She exists in the Sahasrara never has She made it a
requirement. This has no bearing whatsoever on self-realization.

But such evidence is absolutely required if we SYs are to prove that
Shri Mataji is indeed the Adi Shakti. The title of Shri Lalita,
Divine Mother and Adi Shakti has already been stolen from under the
noses of subtle system SYs because they have no guts to make any
public attempt to claim that honor for Shri Mataji. Now we have to
deal with foolish SYs ridiculing the experiences and obstructing
those trying to salvage some honor. Some of them are so dull that it
is almost impossible to make them realize the damage they are doing.

And i keep telling that such experiences are mandatory to advance
the Divine Message. Without such evidence there is just no way any
SY can have the confidence to speak about it. All they can do is
claim Sahaja Yoga is about the subtle system.

So what can be done to make these dull SYs brighter? ....... repeat
after repeat after repeat after repeat of the same stuff until they
can finally begin to grasp. With such murmuring SYs within the
organization spreading their negativity why blame outsiders for our
failures? i have always maintained that the negativity is within.
Those looking outside are just trying to find scapegoats.



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