Soul or soulless, God or godless? Why
everybody established their own styles of religion
From: jagbir singh
Date: Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:08 am
Subject: Soul or soulless, God or godless? Why
everybody established their own styles of religion
> —- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "v_radha_om" <v_radha_om@y... wrote:
> > If you tell to a blind person about light, he will understand
> > according to his assumptions and knoweledge but basically what
> > he thought is not exactly a light. But a person who can see
> > doesn't required any explaniation about light, because he can
> > see the light very clearly. Same way you don't required anybody
> > to show something nameless you have to see yourself now not
> > after 2 weeks 6 months.
> > Sages or gurus whoever it may be how do you know they are
> > telling the truth? how do you really see truth? unless you
> > understand what is false and ways you get deceived you can't
> > really understand truth.
> > Truth cannot be given to anybody it should be preceived every
> > moment of life. it is not a record that u can remember, it is
> > very dynamic. What you experience tells you is just a record of
> > the past not of the present. You people always take paths as
> > important not the truth. you given importance to path not to the
> > truth. To understand to truth you should never have choice.
—- In email@example.com, "jagbir singh" <adishakti_org@y...> wrote:
> "When the Bodhisattvas are possessed of four qualities, then they
> are practicing the Great Yoga," we read in the Lankavatara-sutra,
> one of the principal texts of the Yogacara. "These four qualities
> are as follows: 1. the realization that everything is but a
> manifestation of our spirit, 2. freedom from the false idea that
> there is any such thing as growth, duration, or succession of
> things, 3. the understanding that the sole characteristic of
> external objects is nonexistence, and 4. the understanding that
> the Holy Knowledge is to be realized within ourselves." This four-
> fold mental yoga recluses the practioner from the painful
> whirlpool of samsara, which is otherwise without end.
> Heinrich Zimmer, Philosophies of India
You wrote to me regarding the above: "If soul is to be understood as an
individual and particular spirit, then it is FALSE. If soul is considered as
universal as in brahman, then it is truth and only the truth can set you free"
i think your statement is mainly from the Buddhist's point of view. However i
subscribe to the common view of all faiths and prophets. For me truth cannot be
contradicted, and the statement about the nature of the soul does contradicts
the generally held view. Maybe Edgar Cayce may make all of us realize the
sustaining power of organized religions:
"One of the great ironies of human nature is the fact that the very structure
intended to enrich our relationship with God is the one
thing which divides us most as a human family. For countless eons, more wars
have been fought on religious principles than for any other reason. Even to this
day, wars, bloodshed, political battles, and countless examples of our
inhumanity to one another are commonplace as one group tries to instill (or
enforce) its belief systems, its politics, or the supremacy of its God onto the
lives of others. These conflicts are not simply between various religions but
are also within each denomination. There are sects within Christianity,
Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism, Islam-within every religion!-many convinced that
they are just a little more right than anyone else. Even various churches,
temples, and synagogues have found differences with other members of their own
sect who have somehow fallen away from the "original" or the "true" faith."
So back to Buddhism. According to Thanissaro Bhikkhu "Buddha taught the
existence of neither Soul nor God. According to early Buddhism there is no
eternal soul in man. The world is empty of self. So does a being. It is not
possible to believe that a soul, that is permanent and stable can exist in a
being, because all beings are subject to continuous change, death and decay. ...
One of the first stumbling blocks that Westerners often encounter when they
learn about Buddhism is the teaching on anatta, often translated as no-self.
This teaching is a stumbling block for two reasons. First, the idea of there
being no self doesn't fit well with other Buddhist teachings, such as the
doctrine of kamma and rebirth: If there's no self, what experiences the results
of kamma and takes rebirth? Second, it doesn't fit well with our own
Judeo-Christian background, which assumes the existence of an eternal soul or
self as a basic presupposition: If there's no self, what's the purpose of a
spiritual life? Many books try to answer these questions, but if you look at the
Pali Canon—the earliest extant record of the Buddha's teachings—you won't
find them addressed at all. In fact, the one place where the Buddha was asked
point-blank whether or not there was a self, he refused to answer. When later
asked why, he said that to hold either that there is a self or that there is no
self is to fall into extreme forms of wrong view that make the path of Buddhist
So it is clear that Shri Buddha never admitted nor denied the existence of God
or soul. If Shri Buddha never talked about the soul or God why have Buddhists
assumed non-existence? Why did they put words in Shri Buddha's mouth? Was it to
be different and distinct from Hindus, the modus operandi used by religious
sects to induce disbelieve/ridicule others? i can think of no other reason for
this radical departure. Even Shri Mataji admits that Shri Buddha never talked
about God or self, but that does not mean non-existence of God or soul:
has gone wrong somewhere in every human enterprise, even in religions. That's
why we find this kind of a farce going on.
And what has gone wrong is that we have to seek the Eternal. Maybe it might look
a bit different. For example Buddha and Mahavira did not talk of God at all. I
also did not talk about the God for four years. As soon as you talk about God
people start jumping that when can we become God. So first you become the Self,
the first step.
They said first you become the Self. Unless and until you have eyes, how can you
see the colors? It is for your benevolence that you better get what you deserve,
what is your own is your birthright as a human being, that is, to become the
spirit. That is what Sahaja Yoga is. Sah means with, ja
means born. Born with you is the right to get this Yoga — the
union with the Divine. It is your birth right as a human being. You are the
epitome of evolution.
And it has to work out, but please open your hearts and open your minds, and
then see for yourself. I know it will work. But by thinking about it you cannot
conceptualize. This is the biggest problem of our seeking, that we run after
some sort of concept."
Shri Dvija-Vrnda-nisevita Devi
First, Know Thy Self,
London, U.K. — August 1, 1989
(423rd): Propitiated by the twice-born.)
don't know how many of you have read of Buddha's life and how ultimately He
achieved his Enlightenment. I don't know how many of you have really seen the
Buddhists or have met them; those who call themselves Buddhists. As in every
religion all of them got lost into some sort of a fundamental disease because
none of them got Realization, and that's why everybody established their own
styles of religion. Even you can say that Tao of Lao Tze also ...
You have to see how He first felt that one has to seek something beyond life . .
. He couldn't understand how this misery has come and what is the need to have
this misery. So He gave up his family, He gave up His luxuries of life —
everything He gave up — and went in search of the Truth, as many of you have
done. He would have been lost also I would say because He had read all those
Upanishads, and He read all the books that were possible for Him to say what the
Truth is. But He couldn't get anything.
He was a
complete sanyasi in the sense that as far as the food is concerned, as
far as the entertainment is concerned, everything He gave up and ultimately the
Adi Shakti gave Him Realization because He was so true, and was one of the one
marked for a special place in the Virata. He had to achieve that. Of
course I need not tell you about His previous lives; perhaps in so many of My
lectures I have already talked about it — what was His previous life and how He
achieved His own enlightenment about Himself.
But what we
have to see about His life is that He discovered and found out that want is the
reason of all the myths. But He didn't know what was the real Want, what was the
pure Want, what was the pure Desire, and that's how He could not explain to
people that they have to take their awakening through their Kundalini."
Search For The Absolute, Buddha Puja, U.K. — May 31, 1992
(251st): Of the nature of Consciousness.)
The problem is that
organized religions go to extreme lengths to divide humans and rule them. The
issue of whether the individual soul exists or not is one of the countless
wedges to keep us apart. Even within religions there are ongoing centuries-old
arguments on certain doctrines that lead to eventual division. That is how
religious sects splinter and flourish as sub-sects, and further divide
themselves over time. There is
absolutely no way to reconcile on the differences because most are conjured/speculated/devised by humans, not the prophets.
According to Dr. Haridas
"Buddha said our life is like a river. On this side of the river is
the ordinary life we live. It is a life of samsara, the cycle of death and
rebirth, empirical existence, social development, economic growth, the march of
history and civilization. On the other side of the river is timeless reality,
the kingdom of heaven in the transcendental sense of the word. Some people
through their spiritual development cross the river, experience transcendental
reality and come back to tell their fellow human beings about the other shore
and to help them get there. Still others cross the river, experience the
treasures of transcendental reality, and discover that both shores are
interconnected and interdependent. There is no dualism, no complete separation.
These people come back armed with the power of the divine and with a clear
understanding of the purpose of the ultimate reality. They understand the
ultimate purpose is to develop something on this shore. They come back to
inspire others to build a divine kingdom on this shore, transforming human
society into the perfect image of the transcendental reality. This becomes their
purpose and is the true goal of the evolutionary mysticism. It is the balanced
spiritual ideal: attaining mystical experience and also having an evolutionary
perspective regarding life. Through this we grow true to the kindred points of
eternity and time, of heaven and earth."
Shri Mataji, as
the Mai Treya, has fulfilled the prophecy to complete Buddha's work before this
auspicious age of Kali Yuga in which he appeared runs its course. She has done
all that Dr. Haridas Chaudhuri is talking about.
And what have i realized about the soul over the years? - We are all countless
souls reincarnating to becomes pure enough to eventually merge into Brahman. But
first we have to liberate ourselves, attain moksha and CONTINUE the journey.
That is why it is so vital to first participate in the Great Event ordained for
conceive of anyone merging directly into Brahman from this
physical Earth. Whose mind is that pure and free from
impurities and ignorance? Which Christian, Jew, Muslim,
Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh or Jain sect/sub-sect - all divided
amongst themselves and against their religious rivals - is
favored for eternal life/moksa/anatta (non-self) while their
opponents can all burn/suffer/rot in hell/rebirth/samsara?
From: "jagbir singh" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Date: Fri Dec 3, 2004 3:40 pm
Subject: All religions propound notions of soul, of
levels of soul
Structure of the Soul
"What is soul, this mysterious something that forms our true
essence? Many speak of the soul, but rarely does anyone
say what it is. And so soul remains a vague but profound
mark at the center of our life. Dare we wait until we die to
our soul, in the hope that death will offer a ray of
Despite the confusion, we feel that our soul is who we
undeniably important even if always hidden.
To begin to make sense of this, we can look to the major
traditions for guidance on questions of the soul. All
propound notions of soul, of levels of soul, and of
levels of experience. Soul serves as the bridge between
Earth, and is thus central to all spirituality.
Taoism, Hinduism, and Judaism view the soul as a composite,
incorporating various levels or parts. The lower level
similarities to our physical body. Higher levels are
more refined, with the highest approaching God. Christianity
of the carnal, natural, and spirit bodies. Islamic Sufis
parts nafs, ruh, and sirr. The Hindu soul has etheric,
causal bodies, while Judaic Kabbalah teaches of the nefesh,
Buddhism, on the
contrary, denies the concept of an eternal, individualized
soul. However, Buddhism does include some soul-like ideas,
such as the collection of aggregates, or skandas, which bear
a person's karma into future lives. Tibetan Buddhism speaks
of the four bodies of the Buddha: nature body, truth-wisdom
body, enjoyment body, and emanation body.
A detailed comparison of all these systems of the
soul is better left for an academic thesis."
The Structure of the Soul
"It is a mistake to attempt a final estimate of the views of
Buddha, Plato, Jesus, or any other teacher of religious
by means of a literal analysis of the printed record of what
taught. In the case of Buddha, there is reason to think
Jesus, he taught an inner, higher doctrine to his immediate
disciples. What may be called "popular" Buddhism has
conceded to be preserved by the Southern or Ceylonese
School, and it
is from the scriptures of Southern Buddhism that Western
have gained the impression that Buddha denied the
immortality. Rhys Davids, the Orientalist whose
best known to the West, has written: "There is no passage of
or I in any sense from the one life to the other." ...
concludes that "death, utter death," is the sequel to
Edmund Holmes is convinced that this is a mutilation, a
misreading, of Buddhist philosophy, and his chapter in The
Buddha to correct the mistake seems a well-reasoned
the central implication of Buddhist teachings. The Southern
briefly, is that at death a man's tendencies and traits of
are resolved into psychic residues termed by the Buddhists
and that these are all that remain of the man who has died.
Skandhas (carriers of Karma) are then reborn in some other
individual, but without any connecting link of continuing
Northern Buddhism [the Buddhism of Tibet, China, and Japan],
other hand, while exuberantly metaphysical in form, is said
preserved the teaching given by Buddha to his arhats, or
disciples, and here one finds unmistakably taught the
doctrine of a
permanent identity which unites all the incarnations of a
individual. This latter is the view adopted by Holmes: "The
we have to ask ourselves with regard to the Buddhist
conception is a
simple one: Is the identity between me and the inheritor of
Karma ... as real as the identity between the me of today
me of 20 years hence ...? If it is not as real, the
reincarnation is pure nonsense."
— From an "essay on Buddha's thought contained in a
of the Dhammapada published by the Cunningham Press," quoted
Reincarnation: An East-West Anthology.