Logion 19: "If you become my disciples and pay attention to my sayings, these stones will serve you"

The Paraclete Shri Mataji (Mar 21, 1923 - Feb 23, 2011)
Mar 21, 1923"A. Feb 23, 2011
Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi was
Christian by birth, Hindu by
marriage, and Paraclete by duty.
"The Paraclete represents direct,
intimate divine intervention,
supporting and teaching
believers and challenging the
world, as Jesus did." (D. Stevick
Jesus and His Own, 2011, 290)
"The subject Shri Kundalini Shakti and Shri Jesus Christ is very attractive and interesting. It is altogether a new subject for the common people because nobody has at any time before, attempted to establish any connection between Jesus Christ and Shri Kundalini Shakti. On the Virata tree of religion, saints of various kinds bloomed as flowers in many countries and languages. It is only the Virata who can know the relation inter-se amongst these beautiful flowers. Wherever they went, these flowers spread the sweet fragrance of religion. But even the people surrounding these saints could not grasp the significance of that fragrance. It is therefore, futile to expect the common people to understand the relation inter-se between a saint and the Adi-Shakti, the primordial Mother.

You would be able to experience or understand my view-point if you could attain the plane from which I am talking to you. Because at present, you do not have the necessary equipment to comprehend whether or not what I am telling you is the truth. In other words, you are not yet equipped to understand what the truth is. Until you are able to understand the meaning of the Self, the physical body would remain imperfect and would be unable to verify the truth. But once the physical instrument is connected with truth You are able to verify the Truth. It follows therefore, that first you have to accept Sahaja Yoga and get Self-realization. After Self realization, the vibrations of 'Chaitanya' begins to flow from your hands. If a particular matter is true, then waves of cool vibrations would start flowing into the palms ; but if the same be untrue, hot vibrations would be felt. In this manner, you are able to know as to whether any particular matter is true or not...

Jesus Christ came to save and liberate the whole mankind. He was not the personal possession of any particular sect. He himself was Aumkar incarnate. He was Pranava and the Truth. The bodies of the other incarnations were made up of earth principle, whereas the body of Jesus was made of the soul principle. That is why He was resurrected after death. And it was only through the resurrection that His disciples could know that He was no other than God Himself. Then they started beating the trumpets, started reciting His name, started delivering lectures on Him. The most important thing is that God incarnated. If the people should recognise Him and secure spiritual development and bliss, this would enlighten the soul and spread happiness, and bliss everywhere. May all of you acquire the Yoga of God. Many many blessings."

The Messiah-Paraclete-Ruh-Devi
Shri Kundalini Shakti and Shri Jesus Christ, Bombay India—26 September 1979

"So when we glorify cross, we are glorifying our Agnya, by which we accept the life of dedication and of sacrifice. And if we look forward after the cross we know that it is resurrection. And the resurrection that you are going to actualize in this lifetime.

But now give up all nonsensical ideas about your seekings and useless rumblings. Seeking means, not knowing about anything, but becoming something. For that Christ crucified Himself. He resurrected Himself so that you all could be resurrected. So you have to, today thank Him for giving you the lead of resurrection. And in this life time only you are going to be resurrected and you are going to see with your own eyes your resurrection - as the disciples saw the resurrection of Christ. This is being all promised and this must happen to all of you.

So we should rejoice and be happy that the time has come for a mass resurrection and such a great event we are facing, we are such fortunate people. Give up our small visions and our petty hankerings. Our small, little lives in which we live like frogs. Expand yourself and think that today you are facing the drama of mass resurrection.

Not only that but you are maneuvering it. So rejoice and be happy. That's what Christ did 2.000 years back, today we are going to do it. That's why Easter is a special day for all of us. It's really a very special day, because in our lives the death has died and we are resurrected.

May God bless you all!"

The Messiah-Paraclete-Ruh-Devi
The Meaning of Easter, Dollis Hill Ashram, London, UK—6 April 1980

Tau Malachi, The Gnostic Gospel of St. Thomas
"Jesus said, 'Blessed is he who came into being before he came into being. If you become my disciples and listen to my words, these stones will minister to you. For there are five trees for you in Paradise which remain undisturbed summer and winter and whose leaves do not fall. Whoever becomes acquainted with them will not experience death.'

Blessed is he who came into being before he came into being. The Lord is speaking of himself and of all the enlightened and righteous ones who incarnate to accomplish God's Will on earth and to guide and uplift humanity towards its Divine destiny. They are messengers of the Lord, spiritual teachers and guides, holy souls that have previously awakened to one or another degree and who continue to incarnate in humanity out of love and compassion in order to uplift the holy sparks and enlighten and liberate souls from the power of ignorance. They are, indeed, blessed and a blessing, worthy of all praise and honor. It is a priceless gift to encounter and meet one of these tzaddikim in life, and the wise who encounter them listen to them and follow their teachings, becoming disciples or companions of the master.

To listen means to open and surrender oneself, to practice and live according to the holy teachings, and to establish the conditions necessary to receive initiation. The secret wisdom may be openly spoken to many, but only those who listen and hear will receive initiation and be saved---that is to say, attain a degree of self-realization. One must practice and live according to the Spirit and Truth in order to awaken and set oneself free. The initiate will tell you that there is no other way to live, no other way to eternal life. Every other way is as though being in a deep slumber of strange and fitful dreams or in a living death of which death itself is the lord and fruit.

Now for those who listen and hear, there will be a radical change in consciousness. Upon entering into the mystical path and involving oneself in it through actual spiritual practice and spiritual living, the inner dimensions will open and one will discover God constantly speaking to one's secret and undying soul in every circumstance, situation and event of life, the whole of life being filled with the Divine presence and power. The disciple will discover the kingdom of heaven within and all around. Even in the most ordinary thing, the Holy Spirit will minister to the soul and self. The world is alive and full with the holy Shekinah; the Living Word and Wisdom of God are to be found within everyone and everything. The Spirit of God indwells Creation, as much as transcending it altogether. Realizing this you will truly live and move, and consciously have your being in God, knowing the Spirit of God indwelling you, and even rocks will speak the Word of the Lord to you.

But what if I told you that stones do speak as heavenly angels, all manner of Divine spirits and angels, from spirits of the prophets and sages to great angels? What if I told you that hosts of angels constantly minister to the holy ones, the Divine powers continually coming and going from their presence? Does it sound too fantastic? I will tell you this, what the Lord has in store for you is fantastic. It is unbelievable, awesome, and wonderful! It is incredible, absolutely incredible!

So let me tell you more. If you don't believe me, it won't matter anyway. But if you are blessed to believe me, perhaps it will set you to seeking, so that you might find and know yourself and therefore receive far greater blessings than anyone could ever possibly bestow, blessings straight from the Lord God itself!

Not only can we speak of the Divine powers that serve and minister to the elect, but the tzaddikim become aware of other worlds in the inner dimensions, worlds within worlds and worlds beyond. Each world is as "real" as this material world and those nearer to God are perhaps more real in experience. Not only does the initiate commune with the presence of the Lord and the Divine beings-forces. The initiate enters into other worlds and brings blessings back. Indeed, as St. Paul tells, oftentimes the apostles of God are taken up into the heavens while yet in this life, just as the prophets before them, and they return bearing gifts of the Holy Spirit and a Divine vision or message, whether for themselves or for the people of the book. The holy Master is teaching and initiating his disciples into these mysteries, imparting the secret keys of the mysteries to them.

It must be understood that such holy things are not taught openly but in secret, never in public, only in private, and only to a true and faithful disciple and one who has already had something of the experience and therefore knows already. Only a disciple can receive such precious gifts in Spirit. Only a disciple is involved so deeply in the holy covenant with the master as to share in such mystical experiences. The outsider cannot receive such things, only one who has become an insider and, yet more, a lover of the mystery and the Beloved.

Tau Malachi, The Gnostic Gospel of St. Thomas
Llewellyn Publications (June 8, 2004) pp. 61-3

Richard Valantasis, The Gospel of Jesus
"19a Jesus said: Blessed is one who existed before coming into being.

Thomas's sayings sometimes are based on the fact that there are two creation stories in Genesis. The first begins at Genesis 1:1 and ends at 2:3. The second begins at 2:4 and continues indefinitely. The first creation is perfect. God declares it "good" seven separate times. The first creation features the origin of light and of the primordial humanity made in the Image of God. The second creation starts as if the first had never taken place and features the creation of man out of dirt and the creation of woman out of the man 's rib.

Ancient (and present-day) readers sometimes wondered what happened to the first creation. Such a good creation would not just disappear for no reason. Since the first is never said to have ceased to be, then it must coexist along with the second in a condition of perfection unmarred by any fall subsequent to the primordial seventh day.

From Thomas's perspective, the ultimate goal for human beings is to enter into the condition of the first creation---a condition that continues to exist in reality, although the second creation is what virtually everyone ordinarily perceives. (p.21) Thomas calls the first hidden creation "The Kingdom of Heaven." The human condition of any person can be that of the original Image of God or that of the Adam from the second creation. Accordingly, those who exist before coming into being are humans in the manner of the Image of God, which existed (Genesis 1: 26-27) before humans in the form of Adam came into being (Genesis 2:7). Both continue simultaneously to exist, but the later and inferior form masks the former primordial form.

The Gospel of Thomas

19b If you become my disciples and listen to me, these stones will serve you.
19c In paradise there are five trees that do not change between summer and winter, and their leaves never fall. Anyone who comes to know them will not die.

Since the Kingdom of Heaven is here now upon the earth, everything on earth will serve disciples who recognize that fact. We hear in the Genesis story of the first creation that humans will have dominion over all things on earth (Genesis 1: 28-30). The very stones serve those who recognize their own true nature and the true nature of the world.

The five trees of paradise may allude to the rivers of the four directions, specified in Genesis 2:11-14 along with the center, Eden, from which the rivers flow (Genesis 2:10). These rivers water the trees of paradise (Genesis 2:9). To come to know the trees of paradise, one must return to the condition of the Beginning."

Stevan Davies & Andrew Harvey, Gospel of Thomas Annotated and Explained
Reviews, Skylights Path (2006) p. 20-22

Richard Valantasis, The Gospel of Jesus
Saying 19 "Jesus said, 'Blessed is [SV: Congratulations to] the one who came into being before coming into being. 2If you become my disciples and pay attention to my sayings, these stones will serve you. 3For there are five trees in Paradise for you; they do not change, summer or winter, and their leaves do not fall. Whoever knows them will not taste death.' "

Sayings have been linked here in the staccato presentation which has been described above (see the commentary on Saying 11). Such a conglomeration draws the reader's attention to the process of communication as much as to its substance, especially since some of the references in the sayings have no obvious connection (the stones that serve and the trees that do not change). The meaning of the saying, then, may reside in the manner of its communication. The sayings present four subjects: a statement about the priority of being, a comment about discipleship, a description of the five trees in Paradise, and a concluding statement about death. The final statement that 'Whoever knows them will not taste death' may refer only to the five unchanging trees in Paradise, or to both the trees and the stones that serve. The ending statement on not tasting death invokes Saying 18 as well as Saying 1 in which the discovery of the interpretations of the sayings confers immortality. The reference in these sayings must then be understood as central and important, because the end result of this understanding equates itself with the goal of the interpretation of all the sayings.

This intertextual frame, however, frustrates modern readers. The association of one saying with the others forces the readers/seekers to find the common element, to search for the perspective with which they all cohere; the sayings provide no such common point of interpretation. The resolution comes only as the readers/seekers tease out the meanings themselves, and construct their own meta-interpretative connections. I propose that the elements of this saying construct a metastructure of a mythology of discipleship. That mythology consists of the pre-existence of the seeker before (embodied?) existence, the ministration of inanimate objects that indicate the superior status of the seeker, the five unchanging trees in Paradise that exist for the benefit of the seeker, and an affirmation that the knowledge of this mythology confers immortality just as the discovery of the interpretation of the sayings does (Saying 1).

The first statement in the saying presents the concept of pre-existent existence in the form of a macarism: 'Blessed is the one who came into being before coming into being.' The macarism presents an anomaly: the blessing is upon the one who existed before existing. The statement articulates two levels of being: the being that was before coming into existence and the being in existence. It speaks of temporal precedence of a person's 'coming to be,' and yet such ontological categories generally do not connote temporal order. Generally in these sayings the distinction among categories of people revolves about their knowledge of the interpretation of the sayings or their understanding of the new way articulated in the sayings as opposed to those who neither interpret nor understand. Those who participate in the new community created from those who find the interpretation of the sayings receive all the benefits and blessings of the sayings. In this saying, however, another element is added to the anthropology: there is a pre-existent existence presented as a theological or philosophical aspect of anthropology. In adding this new element, Jesus refocuses the anthropology that has been presented in these sayings. This new element, the pre-existent existence, begins to construct another way of understanding subjectivity by articulating an ontological pre-existence in a way that suggests a myth of an already existent being entering the mundane world. The language of pre-existence and existence, that is, suggests philosophical speculation on the levels of being developed mythologically.

The saying connects this speculative philosophical myth of pre-existent existence to discipleship in the second statement of the saying. That statement links discipleship and mastery of the sayings with authority over nature. Jesus explains that his disciples, those who engage with these sayings, will receive the ministrations of these stones. These disciples will, as another saying puts it, 'rule over all' (Saying 2) so that even the stones will minister to them. In the hierarchy of being set up in these sayings, humans have higher status than animals and stones, but in relationship to other humans, the true followers of Jesus have clear priority so that they receive the ministrations of those levels of existence that stand below them. Although some scholars have sought to connect this portion of the saying to canonical references to stones (see Menard 1975:106-7; Meyer 1992:77), the connection seems more likely to relate to the question of higher and lower levels of existence. Those who both become disciples and who listen to Jesus' words will find themselves capable of being served by lower forms of life along a hierarchical scale that now includes stones, existent beings and beings that existed before coming into existence.

The statement about the five trees in Paradise seems to explain the meaning of the previous statement by the connector 'for.' The mythology as developed in this saying posits a gradation of being and a system of lower forms serving higher ones. This statement connects these gradations to a 'paradise' or garden in which five unchanging trees stand, so that it forms a sort of parallel to the pre-existent existence in some other realm of living. The 'five trees' exist for the benefit of the disciples, since they are described as 'for you' in Paradise, and they are immutable because they are neither subject to seasonal change nor do they lose their leaves. This statement suggests an alternative world to the cosmic world that has been problematized in other sayings, and constructs a mythological place correlative to the place of preexistence that never changes and that exists for the disciples' benefit. The statement simply posits the existence of this paradise without engaging the seeker in any way: there is no injunction to seek that Paradise, or to yearn for the Paradise, or to find the Paradise with its five trees. Just having knowledge of the trees suffices to confer immortality.

The final statement ('Whoever knows them will not taste death') with its significant intertextual frame can either refer to the saying on Paradise or to all the statements in this saying. The knowledge of the mythology developed here that organizes a hierarchy of beings and posits the existence of a paradise with five unchanging trees confers the same benefit as the discovery of the interpretations of the sayings (Saying 1) and the standing at the beginning and knowing the end (Saying 18) since all of these sayings present the seeker as 'not tast(ing) death.' The immortal status of the seeker may be achieved through a number of different enterprises (interpretative, intellectual, and mythological). "

Richard Valantasis, The Gospel of Thomas
Routledge; 1 edition (June 27, 1997) pp. 97-90

Marvin Meyer writes: "Perhaps compare John 8:58. Lactantius, Divine Institutes 4.8 writes, 'For we especially testify that he (that is, Christ) was born twice, first in the spirit and afterwords in the flesh. Whence it is thus said in Jeremiah, "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you." And also in the same work, "Fortunate is one who existed before being born," which happened to no one else except Christ.' Irenaeus, Proof of the Apostolic Preaching 43, offers the following: 'And again he says, "Fortunate is one who existed before becoming human."' Gospel of Thomas saying 19 may not be referring to Christ at all in this beatitude. Rather, the sense of the saying could be that anyone who existed before being born should be declared fortunate. Compare the saying of Jesus in the Nag Hammadi Gospel of Philip 64,10-12: 'Fortunate is the one who exists before coming into being. For one who exists has been and will be.'" (The Gospel of Thomas: The Hidden Sayings of Jesus, p. 77)

Helmut Koester writes: "For the Gnostic understanding it is crucial to know that one's own origin lies before the beginning of earthly existence. John [8:58] consciously avoids this application of divine origin to all believers and restricts it to Jesus as the revealer." (Ancient Christian Gospels, p. 118)

Marvin Meyer writes: "The five trees in paradise are mentioned frequently in gnostic texts, ordinarily without explanation or elaboration. In Manichaean Psalm Book 161,17-29, it is said that various features of life and faith are put together in groups of five. This section opens with the statement, 'For [five] are the trees that are in paradise [. . .] in summer and winter.' On the trees in paradise according to Genesis, see Genesis 2:9." (The Gospel of Thomas: The Hidden Sayings of Jesus, pp. 77-78)

The fulfillment of the promise of eschatological divine instruction
Stephen E. Witmer, Divine instruction in Early Christianity   
F. B. Meyer, Love to the Utmost Robert Kysar, John, the Maverick Gospel 
Danny Mahar, Aramaic Made EZ Lucy Reid, She Changes Everything
David Fleer, Preaching John's Gospel: The World It Imagines Berard L. Marthaler, The Creed: The Apostolic Faith in Contemporary Theology
George Ladd, A Theology of the New Testament In Spirit and Truth, Benny Thettayil
Jesus and His Own: A Commentary on John 13-17 Marianne Meye Thompson, The God of the Gospel of John
Eric Eve, The Jewish Context of Jesus' Miracles D. R. Sadananda, The Johannine Exegesis of God: an exploration into the Johannine understanding of God
Michael Welker, God the Spirit Georg Strecker, Theology of the New Testament
Tricia Gates Brown, Spirit in the writings of John Michael Welker, The work of the Spirit: pneumatology and Pentecostalism
Robert Kysar, Voyages with John: Charting the Fourth Gospel John F. Moloney, The Gospel of John
Harvey Cox, The Future of Faith Robert Kysar, John
Robert E. Picirilli, The Randall House Bible Commentary George Ladd, A Theology of the New Testament 
"The teaching of the Paraclete, as the continuation of Jesus' teaching, must also be understood as the fulfillment of the promise of eschatological divine instruction"Stephen E. Witmer, Divine instruction in Early Christianity

"Jesus therefore predicts that God will later send a human being to Earth to take up the role defined by John .i.e. to be a prophet who hears God's words and repeats his message to man."
M. Bucaille, The Bible, the Qur'n, and Science

"And when Jesus foreannounced another Comforter, He must have intended a Person as distinct and helpful as He had been."
F. B. Meyer, Love to the Utmost

"The Paraclete has a twofold function: to communicate Christ to believers and, to put the world on trial"
Robert Kysar, John The Meverick Gospel

"But She—the Spirit, the Paraclete...—will teach you everything."
Danny Mahar, Aramaic Made EZ)

"Grammatical nonsense but evidence of the theological desire to defeminize the Divine."
Lucy Reid, She Changes Everything

"The functions of the Paraclete spelled out in verses 13-15... are all acts of open and bold speaking in the highest degree."
David Fleer, Preaching John's Gospel

"The reaction of the world to the Paraclete will be much the same as the world's reaction was to Jesus."
Berard L. Marthaler, The Creed: The Apostolic Faith in Contemporary Theology

Bultmann calls the "coming of the Redeemer an 'eschatological event,' 'the turning-point of the ages."
G. Ladd, A Theology of the New Testament

"The Paraclete equated with the Holy Spirit, is the only mediator of the word of the exalted Christ."
Benny Thettayil, In Spirit and Truth

"The divine Paraclete, and no lessor agency, must show the world how wrong it was about him who was in the right."
Daniel B. Stevick , Jesus and His Own: A Commentary on John 13-17

Stephen Smalley asserts that "The Spirit-Paraclete ... in John's Gospel is understood as personal, indeed, as a person."
Marianne Thompson, The God of the Gospel of John

"The Messiah will come and the great age of salvation will dawn (for the pious)"
Eric Eve, The Jewish context of Jesus' Miracles

"The remembrance is to relive and re-enact the Christ event, to bring about new eschatological decision in time and space."
Daniel Rathnakara Sadananda, The Johannine Exegesis of God

"The Spirit acts in such an international situation as the revealer of 'judgment' on the powers that rule the world."
Michael Welker, God the Spirit

The Paraclete's "Appearance means that sin, righteousness, and judgment will be revealed."
Georg Strecker, Theology of the New Testament

"While the Spirit-Paraclete is the true broker, the brokers they rely on are impostors."
T. G. Brown, Spirit in the writings of John

"The pneumatological activity ... of the Paraclete ... may most helpfully be considered in terms of the salvific working of the hidden Spirit."
Michael Welker, The work of the Spirit

"The pneuma is the peculiar power by which the word becomes the words of eternal life."
Robert Kysar, Voyages with John

"The gift of peace, therefore, is intimately associated with the gift of the Spirit-Paraclete"
Francis J. Moloney, The Gospel of John

"This utopian hope, even when modestly expressed, links Jesus and the prophets to a much wider history of human longing."
Harvey Cox, The Future of Faith

"Because of the presence of the Paraclete in the life of the believer, the blessings of the end-times—the eschaton—are already present"
Robert Kysar, John

"They are going, by the Holy Spirit's power, to be part of the greatest miracle of all, bringing men to salvation."
R. Picirilli, The Randall House Bible Commentary

"The Kingdom of God stands as a comprehensive term for all that the messianic salvation included... is something to be sought here and now (Mt. 6:33) and to be received as children receive a gift (Mk. 10:15 = Lk. 18:16-17)."
G. Ladd, A Theology of the New Testament

"I am the one about which Christ has talked... I am the Holy Spirit who has incarnated on this Earth for your realization."

The Messiah-Paraclete-Ruh-Devi

"Tell all the nations and tell all the people all over the Great Message that the Time of Resurrection is here. Now, at this time, and that you are capable of doing it."

The Messiah-Paraclete-Ruh-Devi
Cowley Manor Seminar, UK—July 31, 1982

"This is the transformation that has worked, of which Christ has talked, Mohammed Sahib has talked, everybody has talked about this particular time when people will get transformed."

The Messiah-Paraclete-Ruh-Devi
Chistmas Puja, Ganapatipule, India—25 December 1997

"The Resurrection of Christ has to now be collective resurrection. This is what is Mahayoga. Has to be the collective resurrection."

The Messiah-Paraclete-Ruh-Devi
Easter Puja, London, UK—11 April 1982

"Announce it to all the seekers of truth, to all the nations of the world, so that nobody misses the blessings of the Divine to achieve their meaning, their absolute, their spirit."

The Messiah-Paraclete-Ruh-Devi

"The main thing that one has to understand is that the time has come for you to get all that is promised in the scriptures, not only in the Bible but all the scriptures of the world."

The Paraclete Shri Mataji

"Now, the principle of Mother is in every, every scripture - has to be there."

The Paraclete Shri Mataji, Radio Interview Oct 01 1983—Santa Cruz, USA

"But today is the day I declare that I am the One who has to save the humanity. I declare I am the One who is Adishakti, who is The Mother of all The Mothers, who is the Primordial Mother, the Shakti, the desire of God, who has incarnated on this Earth to give its meaning to itself; to this creation, to human beings and I am sure through My Love and patience and My powers I am going to achieve it. I was the One who was born again and again, but now in my complete form and complete powers I have come on this Earth not only for salvation of human beings, not only for their emancipation, but for granting them the Kingdom of Heaven, the Joy, the Bliss that your Father wants to bestow upon you."

The Paraclete Shri Mataji, December 2, 1979—London, UK

"It is The Mother who can awaken the Kundalini, and that the Kundalini is your own Mother. She is the Holy Ghost within you, the Adi Shakti, and She Herself achieves your transformation. By any talk, by any rationality, by anything, it cannot be done."

The Messiah-Paraclete-Ruh-Devi

"She is your pure Mother. She is The Mother who is individually with you. Forget your concepts, and forget your identifications. Please try to understand She is your Mother, waiting for ages to give you your real birth. She is the Holy Ghost within you. She has to give you your realization, and She's just waiting and waiting to do it."

The Paraclete Shri Mataji, Public Program Mar 22 1981—Sydney, Australia

"The Kundalini is your own mother; your individual mother. And She has tape-recorded all your past and your aspirations. Everything! And She rises because She wants to give you your second birth. But She is your individual mother. You don't share Her with anybody else. Yours is a different, somebody else's is different because the tape-recording is different. We say She is the reflection of the Adi Shakti who is called as Holy Ghost in the Bible."

The Paraclete Shri Mataji, Press Conference July 08 1999—London, UK

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