|
So where else does the Goddess reside, if not
in your own Sahasrara?
From: "jagbir singh" <www.adishakti.org@gmail.com>
Date: Sun Dec 19, 2004 10:18 am
Subject: So where else does the Goddess reside,
if not in your own Sahasrara?
|
—- In
shriadishakti@yahoogroups.com,
A L <vindhyavasinidasi@y...>
wrote:
> >
> > This is a forum where you can speak freely so that
> > SYs are forced to look themselves in the mirror.
> > If you can tell about these negative SYs who hurt
> > you it would help confirm my long-held conviction
that
> > the negativity is within.
>
> I don't want to say anything bad about these people. I
> am a very sensitive person and my feelings are easily
> hurt. Let's just say that those Sahaja Yogis may be
> right about me. I may have a big ego, conditionings,
> my chakras may be all caught up, but it hurts when
> these things are thrown at my face.
>
Thank you Dasi for your kind consideration and humility.
Others
would have been less forgiving.
It is true that some SYs love boasting about their
ability to check
the chakras of others, thinking those 'caught' are
negative. What
galls me is these characters are themselves full of
catches,
requiring daily ritualistic cleansing for years. Yet
these sickly
SYs keep advising the healthy how to heal! Shri Mataji
said
that "some people achieve heights very easily, but some
have to work for six or seven months and are still not
all right."
What gives 'sick' SYs working on themselves for more
than six months
the authority to order those who have achieved heights
to come down
to their level?
Shri Mataji has told SYs to stop checking chakras of
others and take
care of themselves. This is because people, especially
newcomers,
have been hurt by them. Yet these arrogant SYs keep on
giving
unsolicited subtle system diagnosis. What can be done to
stop this
insensitive practice?
i do not mind those free of catches to give advise when
required.
This is because i KNOW those caught up are often just
registering
their own catches when they give such advise. That is
the whole
problem with this collective catching mess. The 'sick'
are mentally
sneezing and coughing on each other and everybody is
psychologically
diseased. After all, you are also healing others by
absorbing the
negativity of others. It is all one huge, futile
exercise of catch
consciousness.
And when senior SYs proudly proclaim that you will never
be free of
catches, chances are you always will remain 'sick'. The
whole subtle
system crumbles if you insist that The Mother Kundalini
is far
capable of healing. What are SYs going to talk and
impress on others
if everyone achieves heights very easily and get healed?
Only by
making you guilty of catches can they have control as
you beg for
their catch-free enlightenment.
Even this catch-free illumination will never come. So
throw all
lemons and chillies into the garbage and past ignorance
out of the
window. Just ask The Mother Kundalini within to heal.
> > i also want to know if your present disillusionment
> > is caused more by the treatment of some SYs than the
> > confusion with Shri Mataji.
>
> I guess both. Of course it has an effect when people
> make me feel bad. I also wonder why there are lots of
> Sahaja Yogis who seem very hard and cold, especially
> among those who are close to Shri Mataji. Shouldn't
> they be the most angel-like, loving and compassionate
> people on earth?
>
i have that same experience with SYs close with Shri
Mataji, but my
memories are still painful. One of them is of a SYogini
loudly
scolding my 5-year-old son, accusing him of being on
drugs just
because she suspected him of scribbled something on the
tabla. i
know my son is a gentle soul with a very brave heart,
but he still
burst into tears. How often does a stranger scold you so
heartlessly?
It hurt me more because i witnessed the whole incident
from a blind
spot. How could a self-realized soul and woman hurt an
innocent
child with so much anger? Are all children who scribble
on walls and
floors on drugs!!??? (This SYogini is still very close
with Shri
Mataji.)
Shouldn't SYs then be the most angel-like, loving and
compassionate
people on earth? That is what i thought would be the
case in the
beginning. i was so blissed out by my son's daily
experiences of
witnessing the Goddess in the Sahasrara that i was awed
into
humility. There was so much love, innocence and
humbleness in me
that i became subservient to SYs. All i wanted to do was
to serve
the devotees of the Shakti for the rest of my life. And
SYs were for
years almost weekly served with free, fine food cooked
with so much
love. Such was the inspiration of knowing that the
Creator really
exists, that there is an eternal afterlife, that we will
be judged
by our righteous life on Earth that i was even prepared
to wash
their feet, just like Jesus did to His disciples. i
though those
longer in Sahaja Yoga would be like me, and definitely
better.
But in the end all my castles of compassion and dreams
of divine
humans vanished. My children were ultimately accused of
being
possessed and demonic in nature. Years of my family's
unselfish
service to fellow SYs did not even matter - we were evil
because our
children witnessed the Shakti ............. against
their will.
In the end my heart became so filled with pain and hurt
the Shakti
within had to act, even though i never asked for help. i
just could
not take the pain and disillusionment any more. i
wondered how could
such people inherit eternal life.
My whole family is so glad to be out of the collective.
Even my
wife, one of the most humble beings i have ever met,
does not want
to go back and join the collective. She was the one who
resisted
breaking off the most but now is convinced that it was
the right
move. The Goddess within has healed us and allowed us to
continue
this journey. For us it was necessary to leave the
collective in
order to be free from all fears and conditioning. Now we
only
meditate with the Shakti within. The Goddess has truly
removed all
obstacles between myself and Her. The Great Event is a
personally
journey with absolutely no intermediaries. Don't let
them slow you
down with that excess baggage. Don't give up just
because SYs are
not what you thought they would be. If you want to
change this world
transform yourself first. Others will follow if you are
truly
enlightened ........................ and it shows in
kind words and
exemplary deeds.
> But my feelings are linked with Shri
> Mataji, too. I just don't see her as the loving and
> compassionate mother. I always hoped that I would be
> one of those who just recognize her, love her and
> surrender their lives to her without any doubts or any
> confusion. I don't know how many times I prayed that I
> would be able to love her like that. I don't know how
> many times I have asked in my meditation if she is the
> Goddess. In the beginning I got no answers, nothing.
> In the end I just felt some sort of a darkness or
> negative feeling.
>
Dasi, i have had so much problems with so few SYs over
these years.
Even this forum strains my mind and tests my patience at
times. Now
imagined what tens of thousands of SYs have been capable
of doing
over decades? i mean having to almost daily deal with
complaints,
letters, gossip, negativity, in-fighting, power
struggles, hate,
stupidity and what not.
i learnt to be hard after i discovered that many SYs are
not angel-
like, loving and compassionate. Honestly, i do not feel
good telling
some members off at this forum. But i have no choice as
that is the
only way. Some members may think i am not loving and
compassionate. The same goes for Shri Mataji. If She had
not dealt strongly with some SYs, there will be chaos in
Sahaja Yoga. Shri Mataji has also discovered, just like
me, that many SYs are not angel-like, loving and
compassionate.
But that does not mean She is not loving or
compassionate. Does my
dealing strongly with some members make me insensitive
and
inconsiderate? If it does than i will have to keep
silent and
tolerate all to protect my image and reputation as a
realized soul.
But i am not here to make others respect and admire me,
just tell
the truth no matter how ego-bruising and loss of
members. i think
the same goes for Shri Mataji and how She deals with
difficult
people, and i assure you there are many difficult SYs.
Maybe these words from Sir C.P. can throw some light as
to how Shri
Mataji has struggled to perform Her duty to the Divine
despite all
obstacles:
"I'm not standing up because that would create a problem
for the
microphone. First of all I'm very honoured, very happy
to be here
with my wife, and I am also very, very pleased to see
all of you,
see the faces which show love and divinity and
dedication to your
Mother. She has been talking about the role of women and
that set me
a thinking. I began to think of the last 48 years that we
have been
married, and I just want to tell you very briefly how
She has
performed the role of an ideal wife, an ideal mother and
an ideal
grandmother in the family, besides being the spiritual
leader of
Sahaja Yoga.
When we got married I belonged to a very conservative
family. She
belonged to a very radical family and it was a good
complement to
each other. But when She came to my house She behaved as
if for
generations She had lived in a very conservative family
and pleased
everybody. The old ladies of the house who were looking
a little
worried, they thought here's a new lady from another
province,
speaking another language, professing another religion
(Christianity),
how will She
fit into our family? But what She did was She won over
the heart of
everyone by behaving in a very modest way, in a very
loving way, in
a very caring way, and I have to admit that She became
the favourite
and I was lost.
Well that is how our family life began. I was certainly
very happy
about it. But then I was a bureaucrat, a civil servant,
and
unfortunately given to idea that absolute honesty must
be observed,
which meant that we had to live within our means, our
salary and all
I had to do was to work in office, and I left all the
problems of
the house to my wife. So I said: "Here's the salary, now
do what
you can." And I tell you She managed beautifully within
our
means. No possibility of anything going wrong.
We had two children, two daughters. She brought them up,
and brought them up extremely well, arranged for their
education, arranged for their marriage. Then they grew
up, I didn't know how, for I was from morning until late
evening every day in office but ... and She was in
charge of the house. She looked after not only my
daughters, but I want tell you this. All of us have rich
relations and they care for themselves, take care, and
we have in India poor relations as well, and when you
are in a good position the poor relations flock to you.
And they came to our house, children who needed
education, and each one of them (we had some sort of
hostel running all the time) each one of them was looked
after by my wife in the same way as our own daughters;
given the same food, given the same affection. Only She
could have done that. And they have grown up, they're
now in so many places. That was the role She played as a
mother. Mother not only to my children, but to the
children of the family.
And then as we grew further, She had a role to play as
my wife. I
held some assignments in government in India and abroad
in the
United Nations. When I was Secretary to the Prime
Minister of India,
about whom I have written a book now, She was the main
motive force
behind me. In fact I wouldn't have gone to Mr Shastri if
She had not
insisted that I must go, and I went and served there. Mr
Shastri had
very great respect for Her because She was, of course
She was
obviously a spiritual person but also a very good
mother, a very
good housewife; and he used to ask Her: "How do you run
your
house, what are your priorities?" And She would say what
She had
to say, and Mr Shastri listened to that.
Now as a wife She played that role. When I was working
with the
Prime Minister sometimes I would be in the office till
midnight. Why
sometimes? Every day. Sometimes till early hours of the
morning. But
She supported me. She said, "This is your duty now, duty
to your
country, to your Prime Minister. You must work. Don't
worry about
the house. Don't worry about the children. I'll take
care of
them."
Then I went to United Nations. There again, my goodness
me, you have to take care of one government was bad
enough in India, to take care of 130 governments all
over was not easy. Travelling, meeting
people, receptions, dinners, a very busy life. But She
stood by me,
and while doing all that She was at the same time
promoting Sahaja
Yoga. I don't know how She did it but She has done a
wonderful job.
You know I saw Sahaja Yoga beginning with four people in
London and
they were wearing jeans, not very clean either. That was
the
beginning of Sahaja Yoga. One day I came back home and
found a young boy — I'm talking 1974, — young boy
sitting in my drawing
room, and when I entered the house he looked at me as if
I was a
stranger, he was the real owner of the house. So I
receded. I didn't
quite understand, but what surprised me even more was
that he was
wearing my clothes. I rubbed my eyes. I said: "Am I
seeing
something real or is it a dream?" Well, then I receded.
I came to my wife and I said, "Now who, who is this
gentleman?" So She explained. She said, "You know he's a
poor young boy, and he was almost lying unattended to,
unhelped near Piccadilly Circus." She had gone out for
shopping and She saw him lying almost in a miserable
condition. So She stepped out of the car, went to that
boy, said: "Why are you lying here, are you alright?" He
said no, he was not well at all. She said, "Is there
anyone to take care of you?" He said, "No, there's
none." She said, "That's awful." Then She said, "Okay,
hop into the car", and She brought him home.
Then he was given a wash. He had no clothes, so he had
to wear my
clothes, and that's how he was wearing my clothes. And
then for the
next some weeks he stayed in the house, and there I saw
Sahaja Yoga
acting. This boy was suffering from, I think, he was in
very bad
shape. within three, four weeks he blossomed. Another
three, four
weeks became healthy person. And then we got to know
that he was
from Australia. He was a young engineer who had run away
from his
house and was in bad shape. After he was cured he became
a very good person. He came back to Australia, was
united with his mother. I
don't know where he is, a Mr Gus, but that was what I
saw, the
miracle of Sahaja Yoga, and from those four persons, yes
four I
talked to they.....Once I came home and found four
persons wearing
jeans, and again I did not know who they were, but they
were Sahaja
Yogis, and they were the initial Sahaja Yogis. Well,
from them to
this is a marvel.
All I can say is despite all Her attention to the
family, to me,
(I've been a busy person), She has attended to all the
duties of the
family; She has created a new universal family of Sahaja
Yoga. Each
Sahaja Yogi in my view is an angel. And I mean this. I
mean this
because I have known human beings in the world. The
world is
terrible. If you look at newspapers you will see all
kinds of horror
stories, but when you meet a Sahaja Yogi, he or she is a
very
different person. The face is different, the inner self
is
different, the outer self is different. It's another
creation. And
She has created thousands and thousands of such persons.
Each one of
you is a miracle. You know, it's very difficult to
transform human
beings. I have worked in United Nations, in India, for
40 years. I
cannot honestly say that I was able to transform even
one human
being. Yes, people followed my example and worked hard,
but that's
not transformation. Transformation is what I see in you.
And that is
a miracle. That is what She has done. And now a new
world is being
created. I sincerely hope that Sahaja Yoga will spread
more rapidly.
It has spread very, very fast but it needs to spread
very much
faster.
And all over the world there's a race between the forces
of good and
the forces of evil. You represent the force of good —
the forces
of evil outside. Have the heart, have the courage. She,
Her
vibrations and your vibrations will, I hope envelop the
world and
create a good world, and this bad world will be
suppressed, will
disappear. This is all that I can say. I thank you very
much for
receiving me here. I'm delighted to be in Australia. I
have liked my
visit immensely already. I think in Australia the
beautiful thing is
that the advantages of a developed world are present
here, but the
heart seems to be very good, very sound, wonderful. You
are open-
hearted people, warm people, loving people, and I cannot
say how
very, very ... I cannot say adequately how very happy I
am and how
very grateful. I thank you, Ma'm, for letting me come
to Australia
and I am going to enjoy my stay, so that's all that I
can say."
Sir C.P. Srivastava
Melbourne Airport, Australia, February 19, 1995
Dasi, you don't know how many times you have asked in
your
meditation if she is the Goddess. Let me tell you of
something
similar.
i once told my son to ask Jesus if indeed Shri Mataji is
the
Comforter. i told him that although we all know She is,
i just want
to ask Him. When Kash meditated and requested permission
to approach Jesus the Goddess gently rejected
permission. This incident is one of those rare occasions
when She refused to accommodate a request. The question
was not only frivolous but insulting to the Savior as
well since we all knew She is the Comforter sent by Him.
Dasi, i am giving you evidence and testimony that She is
the Goddess
within. If i ask Her the same question you did i am sure
there will
be no answer. And i don't think She will answer any
other question
either. Only the SILENCE answers all questions. Just
learn to listen
to IT.
> > Just want to be sure. You also mentioned that you
> > are/were a SYogini. Are you out/still hanging
on/just
> > not sure?
>
> I would say that I am out of Sahaja Yoga. But I am
> confused and not sure if I have done the right thing.
>
Learn from the mystics banished for what they know and
proclaim, not
the ignorant, cowardly priests who rule the collective
temples. Even
if you do not remain you must always seek the company of
spiritual
people. Do not ever abandon the path to seek the Divine.
And seek a
guru or path that embraces all religions, prophets and
scriptures.
Seek the Shakti who is entrenched in all traditions.
Only after
meeting the Divine Mother is liberation possible. So
where else does
the Goddess reside, if not in your own Sahasara?
jagbir
From: "jagbir singh" <www.adishakti.org@gmail.com>
Date: Sun Dec 19, 2004 4:46 pm
Subject: Re: So where else does the Goddess
reside, if not in your own Sahasrara?
|
—- In
shriadishakti@yahoogroups.com,
A L <vindhyavasinidasi@y...>
wrote:
>
> Jagbir,
>
> Thank you for your kind and encouraging words.
> There's something I'd like to comment and ask.
>
>
> > Shri Mataji has told SYs to stop checking
chakras of
> > others and take care of themselves. This is
because
> > people, especially newcomers, have been hurt by
them.
> > Yet these arrogant SYs keep on giving
unsolicited
> > subtle system diagnosis. What can be done to
stop this
> > insensitive practise?
>
> I know what you mean. I did not like that some
yogis
> were always checking if this or that person is all
> right. I am not so egoless that I would not mind
my
> subtle system being monitored. But although that
was
> irksome it did not hurt my feelings so much. What
hurt
> me most was that when I tried to talk about my
doubts
> and problems and was asking questions I was told
that
> I am negative. The fact that I have not been able
to
> love and recognize Shri Mataji and have had bad
> feelings about her is too much.
>
There is nothing i can do to make you change your
feelings about
Her. You have not been able to understand what it
takes to transform
humans i.e. dealing with all sorts of characters.
There is bound to
be conflicts in any human organization. How they are
resolved is
subjective. What may be regarded as enlightenment by
some may be
viewed as high-handedness by others. Charging a few
thousands
dollars for a series of mantras or scaling up the
Scientology grades
may be reasonable for many but charging $108 for
pujas may be
highway robbery to others. It is all in your mind.
>
> > i have that same experience with SYs close with
Shri
> > Mataji, but my memories are still painful. One
of
> > them is of a SYogini loudly scolding my
5-year-old son,
> > accusing him of being on drugs just because she
> > suspected him of scribbled something on the
tabla. i
> > know my son is a gentle soul with a very brave
heart,
> > but he still burst into tears. How often does a
stranger
> > scold you so heartlessly?
>
> I am sorry to hear that. Children who I know
scribble
> something almost everywhere. I think it a good
lesson
> for us adults to learn what is really important in
> this world, material things or the joy that
children
> get from their scribbling.
>
> > It hurt me more because i witnessed the whole
> > incident from a blind spot. How could a
self-realized
> > soul and woman hurt an innocent child with so
much
> > anger? Are all children who scribble on walls
and
> > floors on drugs!!??? (This SYogini is still very
close
> > with Shri Mataji.)
>
> This is what I mean. Maybe that Sahaja Yogini had
a
> bad day. And some people get easily irritated by
> children. But if she is always cold-hearted like
that,
> does not Shri Mataji's close presence have any
effect?
> If she gets Mother's love, shouldn't she also emit
> Mother's love?
The vast majority of SYoginis are loving, nurturing
and compassionate. That was the only incident i had
of a negative SYogini. Yes, maybe she may have had a
bad day but i was shocked at her behavior. But
picking one SYogini and questioning why she cannot
emit Mother's Love is asking for way too much. It is
just like looking at thousands of shining stars and
picking one that has less lustre, and wondering what
went wrong.
You should know that Shri Mataji has transformed
tens of thousands
of people to live better, spiritual lives. Putting
our attention on
a few fallen ones will always create doubts in our
minds about Shri
Mataji abilities.
>
> > Shouldn't SYs then be the most angel-like,
loving and
> > compassionate people on earth? That is what i
> > thought would be the case in the beginning. i
was
> > so blissed out by my son's daily experiences of
> > witnessing the Goddess in the Sahasrara that i
was
> > awed into humility. There was so much love,
innocence
> > and humbleness in me that i became subservient
> > to SYs. All i wanted to do was to serve
> > the devotees of the Shakti for the rest of my
life.
> > And SYs were for years almost weekly served with
> > free, fine food cooked with so much love. Such
> > was the inspiration of knowing that the Creator
really
> > exists, that there is an eternal afterlife, that
we
> > will be judged by our righteous life on Earth
that i was
> > even prepared to wash their feet, just like
Jesus did to
> > His disciples. i though those longer in Sahaja
Yoga would
> > be like me, and definitely better.
> >
> > But in the end all my castles of compassion and
dreams
> > of divine humans vanished. My children
were ultimately
> > accused of being possessed and demonic in
nature.
> > Years of my family's unselfish service to fellow
SYs
> > did not even matter - we were evil because our
> > children witnessed the Shakti .............
against
> > their will.
>
> How is it possible? Did they ever say why? Does
Shri
> Mataji know about this and if she knows what is
her
> opinion?
>
This is a long story that is still unfolding.
>
> > My whole family is so glad to be out of the
collective.
> > Even my wife, one of the most humble beings i
have
> > ever met, does not want to go back and join the
> > collective. She was the one who resisted
breaking off
> > the most but now is convinced that it was the
right
> > move. The Goddess within has healed us and
allowed us
> > to continue this journey. For us it was
necessary to leave
> > the collective in order to be free from all
fears and
> > conditioning. Now we only meditate with the
Shakti within.
>
> When you say that you only meditate with the
Shakti
> within, don't you pay any attention to Shri Mataji
as
> a guru and as an incarnation?
>
No - there is nothing external to pay attention to.
i just meditate
on the Adi Shakti within my Sahasrara.
> >
> >i learnt to be hard after i discovered that many
SYs
> >are not angel- like, loving and compassionate.
>
> But it is odd...is there no power in the kundalini
> awakening then? In the talk by Sir CP that you
also
> sent here Sir CP said that all the Sahaja Yogis
are
> like angels, that Shri Mataji has transformed
them. Is
> Sir CP wrong? Is Shri Mataji not able to transfrom
her
> disciples?
>
As i said before most SYs are kind, considerate and
loving. Yes, Sir
CP said that all the Sahaja Yogis are like angels
and Shri Mataji has transformed them. i don't see
anything false about this statement. Can you name me
one guru/religious organization that has been able
to make their followers unconditionally embrace all
religions, their messengers and scriptures? How is
it possible for so many SYs who were former drunks,
drug addicts, social misfits, hippies etc. to give
up all these vices and believe in the Divine? Why do
you feel Sir CP is wrong and Shri Mataji is not able
to transform her disciples? It just does not make
sense.
> > Honestly, i do not feel good telling some
members off at
> > this forum. But i have no choice as that
is the only way.
> > Some members may think i am not loving and
> > compassionate. The same goes for Shri Mataji. If
She
> > had not dealt strongly with some SYs, there will
be
> > chaos in Sahaja Yoga. Shri Mataji discovered,
just like
> > me, that many SYs are not angel-like, loving and
> > compassionate.
>
> But she still has so many hard and cold people
around
> her. She has not dealt with them strongly.
>
i wonder why you think they must be dealt strongly.
Did they murder,
rape or embezzle? What is the seriousness of their
crimes that has
left you unsatisfied? Have you witnessed them
first-hand or just
depending on rumours and hearsay?
Shri Mataji has expelled a number of leaders from
Sahaja Yoga for
wrongdoings. Are you not satisfied by Her having the
guts to expell
those capable of damaging Sahaja Yoga once out of
the organization?
Why do you think you know better?
> >
> > Dasi, you don't know how many times you have
asked in
> > your meditation if she is the Goddess. Let me
tell you of
> > something similar.
> >
> > i once told my son to ask Jesus if indeed Shri
Mataji
> > is the Comforter. i told him that although we
all
> > know She is, i just want to ask Him. When Kash
> > meditated and requested permission to approach
> > Jesus the Goddess gently rejected permission.
This
> > incident is one of those rare occasions when She
> > refused to accommodate a request. The question
> > was not only frivolous but insulting to the
Savior as
> > well since we all knew She is the Comforter sent
by
> > Him.
>
> But I don't! And Sahaja Yogis (like the one here)
told
> me to ask that question. Now you say that these
> questions should not be asked. Why did everybody
else
> get some great answer when they asked that
question?
> Does the Goddess answer them but not us? How is it
> possible? Are those answers Sahaja Yogis get just
> imagination?
>
They are ALL asking the vibrations and that is how
they get answers.
i am surprised that you did not know this
fundamental fact.
> > Dasi, i am giving you evidence and testimony
that She
> > is the Goddess within. If i ask Her the same
question
> > you did i am sure there will be no answer. And i
don't
> > think She will answer any other question either.
Only
> > the SILENCE answers all questions. Just learn to
listen
> > to IT.
>
> But I do listen to the silence. I feel that the
> Goddess comes to me in silence and emits love,
> understanding...it is like merging with the whole
> Universe. She IS the silence. Still I don't see
the
> connection between the silence and Shri Mataji. On
the
> contrary, Shri Mataji takes me AWAY from it.
>
If you are truly in Silence nothing can take you
away from anything. Shri Mataji IS the incarantion
of the Goddess within. After 10 years
and thousands of visits in the Sahasrara there is no
way anyone can
demolish this Truth. There is just no way any human
can do so, unless of course they just do not want to
believe. They must logically deny all the evidence i
have presented so far and will present in the
future. There is just no way anyone can do so.
Whether humans believe or not is immaterial. In the
end it is the Divine Message that matters and you
know what it is. Denying that Shri Mataji is the
Goddess does nothing to diminish that Message. It
will stand on this Earth as long as it exists!
> >
> > Learn from the mystics banished for what they
know
> > and proclaim, not the ignorant, cowardly priests
who
> > rule the collective temples. Even if you do not
remain
> > you must always seek the company of spiritual
> > people.
>
> The problem is that after being in Sahaja Yoga I
am
> afraid of most spiritual or religious people. It
is
> difficult to find people who are spiritual and
still
> humane.
>
It is the Divine Message that matters after all. You
are free to do
as you wish.
jagbir
From: "jagbir singh" <www.adishakti.org@gmail.com>
Date: Mon Dec 20, 2004 7:32 am
Subject: Re: So where else does the
Goddess reside, if not in your own Sahasrara? |
—- In
shriadishakti@yahoogroups.com,
A L <vindhyavasinidasi@y...>
wrote:
>
> Jagbir,
>
> I feel that you got angy with me and now make
me feel
> ignorant and stupid. Maybe you are right about
that,
> but I am not revengeful like you suggested.
And why
> tell me first that this is a safe place to
talk when
> your reaction to my doubts and questions is
just the
> same as those Sahaja Yogis' who hurt me? Do
you think
> that after one nice and kind message my doubts
will be
> cleared just like that and suddenly I start
feeling
> positive about Shri Mataji?
>
Dasi,
Why are you so sure that i am angry with you?
How have i made you
into an ignorant and stupid person? If you are
going to be so
sensitive then it will be difficult to be honest
and truthful
because the ego gets bruised.
So what made you feel ignorant and stupid, and
think that i was
angry?
——————
> >
> > i learnt to be hard after i discovered that
many SYs
> > are not angel- like, loving and
compassionate.
>
> But it is odd...is there no power in the
kundalini
> awakening then? In the talk by Sir CP that you
also
> sent here Sir CP said that all the Sahaja
Yogis are
> like angels, that Shri Mataji has transformed
them. Is
> Sir CP wrong? Is Shri Mataji not able to
transform her
> disciples?
>
As i said before most SYs are kind, considerate
and loving. Yes, Sir
CP said that all the Sahaja Yogis are like
angels and Shri Mataji
has transformed them. i don't see anything false
about this
statement. Can you name me one guru/religious
organization that has
been able to make their followers
unconditionally embrace all
religions, their messengers and scriptures? How
is it possible for so
many SYs who were former drunks, drug addicts,
social misfits,
hippies etc. to give up all these vices and
believe in the Divine?
Why do you feel Sir CP is wrong and Shri Mataji
is not able to
transform her disciples? It just does not make
sense.
—————-
Maybe the above answer made you feel that way.
But what is so hurtful about it? You are
doubting Shri Mataji is able to transform
humans, even implying that Sir CP could be
wrong! i am trying to make you understand that
is just not true because Sir CP just does not
make bombastic statements. He is a very
distinguished diplomat who served as Secretary
General of the UN International Maritime
Organization for a record term of 16 years. Sir
C.P. Srivastava is himself distinguished not
only as India's most decorated civil servant but
also as the first Indian to be knighted by Queen
Elizabeth II for his contribution to the United
Nations. You just don't accuse such eminent
beings of being wrong, especially when he has
been married to Her for more than half a
century. He knows Shri Mataji far more than
anyone else. That is why his words carry weight
and we have to respect his point of view.
However i think you are doubting him because of
he used the word "angel". Perhaps that is all
there it to it. But "angel" is just a figure of
speech. And Sir CP says they are LIKE angels,
not angels. Please try to understand what people
are trying to say when such descriptive terms
are used. Does President Bush's "axis of evil"
make all Iraqis, Iranians and North Koreans into
wicked beings? Does greeting others with "Good
Morning" make the morning better or subject to
arguments? They are all figures of speech. A
figure of speech, sometimes termed a rhetorical
figure or device, or elocution, is a word or
phrase that departs from straightforward,
literal language. Figures of speech are often
used and crafted for emphasis, freshness of
expression, or clarity. However, clarity may
also suffer from their use when Oprah Winfrey,
along with millions of others, say so often "You
are an angel." At least Sir CP was more precise,
truthful and less flattering when he used the
term "like angels".
——————-
> But she still has so many hard and cold people
around
> her. She has not dealt with them strongly.
>
i wonder why you think they must be dealt
strongly. Did they murder,
rape or embezzle? What is the seriousness of
their crimes that has
left you unsatisfied? Have you witnessed them
first-hand or just
depending on rumours and hearsay?
Shri Mataji has expelled a number of leaders
from Sahaja Yoga for
wrongdoings. Are you not satisfied by Her having
the guts to expell
those capable of damaging Sahaja Yoga once out
of the organization?
Why do you think you know better?
—————-
i think you are very judgmental when you say
"she still has so many
hard and cold people around her. She has not
dealt with them strongly." In fact you are
accusing all of them of some imaginary crime
which, in your case, is being hard and cold.
Maybe your comprehension of "hard and cold" may
actually be a case of quiet, stoic, meditative
individuals. Have you met all of them
personally? Maybe they are busy carrying out
their duties. Maybe they have met funny people
and try not to waste their energies when it can
be better used. There are so many reasons and we
are just speculating. For all we know they may
actually be very
warm, nice and friendly people. The video tapes
of pujas and public
programs are proof of what i am saying. Where
are the "many hard and
cold people around her" that you have seen? Yes,
many one or two may
be hard and cold and that is a big MAYBE. But
you are speaking of
many hard and cold people. This is just not true
Dasi.
Now i am wondering why you want them to be
punished and that Shri
Mataji must deal with them strongly. What have
they done wrong? Why
do you feel they must be punished? Why do you
think you know better?
If asking you to justify your accusations with
solid facts make you think i am angry, what can
i really ask you then? And the fact is that i am
not. i am just asking questions that strip
accusations of falsehood and expose the naked
truth. Please do not expect me to butter you
just to make you believe in Shri Mataji.
> I don't understand some other things either.
First you
> say that you are disappointed with Sahaja
Yogis and
> don't want to be in the collective. Now you
say that
> you have only met one negative Sahaja Yogini
and most
> Sahaja Yogis are just like angels. If they
are, why
> are you out of the collective then? Didn't
Shri Mataji
> say that it is important to be in the
collective?
> Don't her words matter?
>
>
i am very disappointed with SYs because they do
not have the courage
and conviction to announce the Last Judgment and
Resurrection. i am
also very concerned about the way they put so
much emphasis on
cleansing chakras and treatments. i am appalled
by the fear exhibited by some SYs regarding all
types of evil entities - cats, bats, bhoots,
spiders and what not.
Yes, i met only one negative SY because of what
she did. Perhaps she
has improved since. My definition of "negative'
may not be what others think it is. We will
start splitting hairs is we try to argue about
this.
Most SYs are LIKE angels, not angels and don't
get me wrong this time. All humans who try to
live a honest righteous life, believe in God and
love ALL others are LIKE angels. i am sure
millions of priests, pastors, reverends,
bishops, popes, rabbis, clerics, imams, mullahs,
shaikhs, ulema, ayatollahs, gurus, swamis,
pandits, brahmins, acaryas, bhagwans, granthis,
gianis, lamas, monks, dalai lamas have described
humans as angels. So please do not crucify me if
i think SYs are like angels, not angels.
i came out of the collective because it was
necessary for me to heal
myself. When others think your children are
possessed for having that cosmic vision it is
time to protect your family by isolation.
Moreover my views are very strong and opposed to
what SYs are doing to spread the advent of Shri
Mataji. At the time i leaving i was already
begin to argue and question the integrity of SYs.
i still am.
Yes, Shri Mataji did say to be collective. This
is crucial for initial growth. Once the
kundalini is established you have to ascend. It
becomes necessary to be in Collective
Consciousness. Many SYs are still in local
collective consciousness. They still have not
understood what She means by being collective.
Shri Mataji has said exactly what i am telling
you. Yes, Her words do matter. It all depends on
how you comprehend their deeper meanings. That
is why it is necessary to listen to Her tapes
many times ................... unless you depend
on the SILENCE by meditating on Her in the
Sahasrara. The SILENCE will teach you the true
meaning of being
collective.
jagbir
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