Brahman/God-realization is far more difficult and time consuming than Self-realization

—- In," jagbir singh"
> So this is for those who wish to ascend. By advancing in Self-
> realization and only after giving up all external rituals is it
> possible to begin the steepest ascent of God-realization. To reach
> the summit of Aham Brahma Asmi (I am Brahman) and Tat Twam Asi
> (That Thou Art) will easily take many years, probably decades. SYs
> still wandering aimlessly on the plateau far below and happily
> indulging in the ceaseless chatter of catches and cures should not
> even look up at the summit to attempt the impossible. This advice
> is also for all World Council masters who perpetuate this avidya.
> To those who want to advance in God-realization there is no barrier
> and duality between Brahman and you. Be your own master and realize
> the Shakti and you are One within! Only then will you very, very
> slowly realize Aham Brahma Asmi (I am Brahman) and Tat Twam Asi
> (That Thou Art). Brahman/God-realization is far more difficult and
> time consuming than Self-realization.

Arwinder, what it is to be a spirit?

> And all your most difficult and complex questions will be answered
> in this thoughtless state. Once you have attained and sustained it,
> and merged with the Shakti within, there will be nothing to ask.
> You will always want to be Silent within as the thoughtless state
> is the source of vast spiritual powers. You absolutely need it to
> first heal and stabilize this fragmented human mind. So throw away
> all kindergarten lemons, chillies and questions and learn how to
> empower and make yourself your own master. Pallawi, you must end
> all forms of external rituals no matter what the subtle system SYs
> tell you - this is of utmost importance because i know how
> fanatical they are. The sad truth is that despite years they have
> been unable to use the thoughtless state as the ceaseless chatter
> of catches and cures conditions and condemns them to such a life.
> As Violet has correctly said, it will be very enlightening to read
> Shri Mataji's teachings below:
>"All that happens in the thoughtless state is enlightened. Light
> never talks. If you switch on the light in the room, the light
> won't speak or give you any ideas. It would just make everything
> visible. The same is true about the light of thoughtlessness.
> First become thoughtless and then doubtless. Then all your doubts
> go and you know that there is some power that works. It works very
> fast and is all subtle. You will be amazed how it happens. This is
> also about time. I never look at a watch. But my real watch is in
> the thoughtlessness.
> If you are thoughtless God takes you everywhere as if on his hands.
> He makes all arrangements. He knows everything and there is no need
> to tell him about anything. But you must see whether you are in the
> main stream or not. If you are not in it then you are stuck up
> somewhere on the bank; then the current comes and takes you in
> twice or thrice, but again you are on the bank. Then you
> say 'Mataji, nothing goes smoothly for me'. It won't because you
> are entangled.”
> Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi (Nirmala Yoga, 1982)
>"Because this mind, which is just a bubble as I told you and is so
> limited that it cannot comprehend the beauty, the glory, and the
> expanse of reality. This mind is just a collection of all the
> garbage we should say, which we have to somehow or other deny and
> tell ourselves that I have to go beyond my mind. This so-called
> mind of mine has done no good for me. This 'mind' of mine which
> has been all the time controlling me is just like the watch we
> have made and which is controlling us or like the computer that
> controls us. We have to be careful that we are the ones who have
> created this mind and this mind has no business to control us.
> Now, once your attention goes beyond the mind - only the Sahaja
> Yogis will understand this point very clearly. When this mind goes
> beyond the thoughts, then the manipulation of the attention is very
> important. Then whatever you manipulate means you take this
> attention to this or to that. You will be surprised how dynamic you
> become, how effective you become and how knowledgeable you
> become. Because once you can take this attention to anything you
> want, immediately there is light on that issue, on that person, on
> that problem and you see how it works out, how it helps.”
> Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi (21.03.1996, Delhi)

The ceaseless chatter of catches and cures conditions and condemns them to such a life

What does it mean when it states 'self realization'?
Posted 2006-09-03 2:08 PM (#63536)
Subject: Self realization?

What does it mean when it states 'self realization'? Is it something to do with seeing the world as it is? Wouldnt this be more down the lines of meditation?


Posted 2006-09-03 7:25 PM (#63547 - in reply to #63536)
Subject: RE: Self realization?

Self Realization is some thing which can not be described using any material description such as the one with sight, smell, taste, touch or hearing. Therefore, it is described by negation, that is by what it is not. This creates a problem for a student of material science, which is predominent in the Western world, as to how to know what the Self Realization is. The answer to that question is: It comes only by experience. One's getting that experience can not (be) imparted on another person except as the knowledge. For example, when I see New Jersy, I can video tape it and show it to another one who has not seen NJ. Not the same with Self Realization.

One way to describe Self Realization, which is also a negation way is as follows:

when all other realization is not taking place, some thing is realized. And, that is the Self Realization. How do you know that it is true?

a) By trust in the one who has told so. That is another anomaly with Spirituality that the best proof in Spirituality is : What is told by Vedas .. called as Agama. Whereas in material science, the best proof is: What is witnessed through perception.... callled as Pratyaksha.

b) By experiencing that all perceptions received so far have not resulted in complete bliss. And, one really would like to have a complete bliss. Therefore, one is forced to trust that such a bliss is possible. And, then it is possible through something which is not perceived, called Self Realization.

In the words of the great sage Patanjali...

yogashchittavruttinirodhaH ... tadaa drashtusvaruupevasthaanam.. vruttisaarupyamitaratra...etc.


Oops, missed one thing: Meditation is a process which leads to pacification of the mind, that is NON-perception of anything.. which results in Self Realization.


Posted 2006-09-04 2:05 PM (#63572 - in reply to #63536)
Subject: RE: Self realization
Sorry, but I really didnt understand any of that.


Posted 2006-09-04 4:46 PM (#63581 - in reply to #63572)
Subject: RE: Self realization?

Well, I should be the one to be sorry if you did not get it. Let me try again. Hoping that you are English speaking, the term ' Self Realization' has two words: Self, and Realization. First, one has to know what the Self means. And, then the Realization.

a) Self is called Atman, Jiva, Purusha, etc. in Sanskrit. What it means is as follows. If one tries to know one's own personality, nature, existence, or whatever. One finds body made up of flesh, bones, nerves, etc. All the body parts are accessible using one or more 5 senses of perception namely sight, hearing, touch, smell, and taste. Then, one understands that there is something called Mind which is made up of memory, emotions, intellect, attention, etc. These can not be accessed using the 5 senses of perception.

When a person tries to obtain happiness using any of the Body and Mind parts, he/she realizes that the happiness thus obtained is limited and also transitory. For example, one can get happiness through intercourse, but only for a given time. And, the same can not be obtained after certain age. The one who wants to obtain a happiness which never dies, searches beyond. And, then hits upon either own experience (which is extremely rare, almost never) or statement of another who has obtained such happiness. This statement is called 'gama'. This statement states that there is a reality beyond Body and Mind, and any material world. This reality never changes, it is permanent. This reality pertaining to a person is called 'Self'.

b) Realization: Now, one who trusts the agama, performs a practice called Spiritual Practice, Paramartha, Saadhana, Yoga Practice, Meditation, etc. During this practice, mind is made totally focussed and then totally disfunctional. That means realization of all material things are removed. When that happens, the realization mentioned in the agama takes place. And, that is the Self Realization.

Thus, the nature of Self Realization is given by negation of all other things realized through senses.


Posted 2006-09-04 6:15 PM (#63588 - in reply to #63536)
Subject: RE: Self realization?
jermay - meditation is one path toward self realisation. Asana and pranayama are important preparations for meditation. As Neel says, self realisation is not easily described in our feeble words. I am not sure I truly understand what it means myself. I am hoping that in the lifetime I am meant to find self realisation, I will at least be able to understand what it is properly.


Posted 2006-09-04 6:47 PM (#63591 - in reply to #63536)
Subject: RE: Self realization?
if you close your eyes and stay quiet long enough you might start to recognize the thoughts that never seem to stop running in your mind eventually you might be able to make your mind quiet once that happens you will be recognizing what you really are 'cause you are not your thoughts or your body or your breath there is something beyond all that.

good luck, learn as much as you can


Posted 2006-09-04 6:49 PM (#63592 - in reply to #63536)
Subject: RE: Self realization?

I would like to give you a simplified and simple explanation. Self realization means understanding the true nature of yours. We all are nothing but Brahman. Because of the influence of Maya or cosmic delusion we have forgot this fact. We have forgot our true nature. Maya makes us believe that we are different from Him. Self realization is understanding this very truth that"I am Bramhan.”

With the help of meditation you make your mind calm, stand still and once that happens Maya can no longer delude you. You then understand the true nature of yours. Thus Meditation is an effective way to achieve self realization.
Edited by bipinjoshi 2006-09-04 11:23 PM

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